Mid’s Guide on Damage Maximization [2.5]

… Speechless im done my brain just explode

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:joy: took me a long time to get my head around this as well ;)!

Thanks for the must needed guide. Mind= Blown! I mean I kinda knew how to build very effectively but this guide makes it all that much better. I mean it was thanks to Mid that I learnt about the ED thing even though Illidans guide existed for PvP. The DPS formula I may have known about but it’s good that we get a further simplification of this complex but wonderful game. I was cheering you secretly at the back of my mind for you to get this guide done eventually and I’m glad you finally got it out at least. The new cronos lol. Hehe I’m joking but yeah.

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@Midlumer +1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1
Effortless :heart_eyes:

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Thanks mate, much appreciated :blush: kinda blushing right now. We do it all out of love for this cool game :relaxed:!!

Hardly but yeah :smile: thanks!

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Nice guide.

  1. I understand that this is a DPS guide, but this game is even more complex. :stuck_out_tongue: Hopefully I will be able to find the time to proof read and add chapters 3, 4 and 5 of my Rogue guide. They tell you why, depending on the build, you want high Burst instead of high DPS. They are 90% finished IIRC. I thought I posted them already since I know I showed it to ppl and asked for feedback about it. Oh, well. You can find the guide here: Unfinished Rogue . Will let you know when I update those. Lots of IRL and Testing stuff so it might take a while.

  2. In PVP, there are affixes that boost DMG by more than 50%. IE: the first WD+ or ED+ affix will increase your DMG by about 300% if you had no other affixes and no investment into Power. Then there are the mythics that boost by 50%.

  3. Your EAC calculation is wrong. But I guess the Dictionary entry is difficult to understand? You have a 50% chance of 1 Extra Attack at +1 EAC. This EA is not reduced. So by default it gives a min of 50% DPS. Each subsequent EA is dependant on the previous EA succeeding (all at 50%). Gtg 2 work but I hope this is enough info for you to calculate it. +2 EAC (Zenith in PVP) gives 75% DPS.

I will provide more feedback when I get back home.

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Thanks :slight_smile: looking forward to this! Never quite understood the fuss about spike damage, eager to learn something ;).

I bet it has something to do with Frozen :stuck_out_tongue:

Of course, but if you check table 5 (subsection 4.1) you’ll see these higher values :wink: mentioned Exposed/Skilled/Ruptured briefly in 3.6 and 4.4.

It is not wrong. Of course if you’ll only add EAC, you get an increase of 75% for PvP. But If you already have 2 MA, the increase in overall damage shrinks to 37.5% - Note (c) in table 6.

Nice, would be an honor :relaxed:. Found a minor mistake in my PvE CRIT flowchart on slot 5, but I will only correct this with the next major update… Too lazy right now :yum:

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brain hurts lol thanks

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It is one of the reasons but not the only reason. But I am not gonna spoil anything yet. :stuck_out_tongue:

As you could probably tell, I was in a hurry when I first saw this guide.

So:

I did not notice the “>” and “<” symbols. Sorry.

Sorry, was in a hurry didn’t see it.

Anyways the more detailed feedback:

How much experience do you have writting guides? I really like the format. But there are many parts that are confusing and not so easy to notice and understand. Overall a very good written piece.

  1. As someone who is skilled in math, I understand how easy it is to use acronyms. I can understand you easily, but for a someone not so skilled will have a lot more trouble. You have a bit too many acronyms many do not need to be defined at 1.2 as they are either already a known gaming term, a term with rampant use on this forum or are used in only 1 section of the guide. Section 1.2 is deemed very important but the long list makes it easily forgettable.

I recommend moving all the section specific acronyms to the section you use them. Also remove the unnecessary ones. Does someone who wants to optimize DPS really need to know what LOHKO (which is a player made up term for a specific build) means? You only bring up this term a few times in 1 specific section and never bring it up again. You use chose some confusing or unpopular terms:

  • CC - Crit Chance. I recommend changing this to Crit%. It is much easier to understand and cannot be confused with Crowd Control a highly used gaming term for disables and stuff.
  • CH - Critical hit. How about just Crit?
  • conv - converse. If you talk to a random stranger, what do you think this word means to them? What does “talking” have to do with DMG optimization? Yes, you touched on its math meaning in 2.6 but I am a random noob at 1.2 and am now totally confused. :frowning:
  • CrD. How about Crit DMG?
  • CRIT. How about Crit Mod?
  • DM - Damage multiplier. Too confusing especially with the multiple ways you use this term. The normal understanding of DM is “the damage multipler of 300% ED is 3x”. The information you are describing in many of your calculations is actually called MI% - Marginal Increase % which is the change between the new and old values.
  • DQ - Dungeon Quest. Are you talking to someone who has no clue what game they are playing or someone who has already played the game and is looking to improve?

In the beginning of a written piece, an author needs to know who they are talking to and adjust their speech to their audience. You seem to expect the person reading this to have no idea what HP or even DQ is. Yet, you also expect them to magically know the math meaning of converse instead of the normal “to converse = to talk”. There is common language and uncommon language. Yes writting is difficult. :frowning:

  1. 2.3, this section is not very effective. [quote=“Midlumer, post:1, topic:14021”]
    So multiplicative » additive, wherever possible get different damage sources!
    [/quote]

This generalization is not very accurate. For example a newb might not have access to +100% ED. 100% Glasscannon (easily available for newbs) is way better than 50% Glasscannon + 20% ED. For end game players, 200% ED is the same as 100% ED + 50% PTL. What message are you trying to send here? The meaning of Additive + Multiplicative or help the reader know what is more important?

  1. Again, the way you are using and describing DM in 2.4 is against the norm and is highly confusing.

  2. 2.5.3, I do not understand the message of your example. What is Green Garden? Why use Cosmic Power over Equality?

  3. 2.6 and 2.7, remove the word “Part” from the section title. XD

  4. change the word AIDS to HELP. Most people have forgotten the meaning of the word Aid and link it to the name of the disease.

  5. I am surprised you did not mention Hit Frequency in this. There are other DMG increasing mechanics that you did not go into like Damage per Pierced.

Given the limited information that you have, bravo. Very good job with this guide. Thank you for putting time and effort in helping others.

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Thanks for the detailed feedback :slight_smile: gonna fix some points accordingly (don’t know when though :grinning:).

Points taken. I will try to clean that up - converse can be replaced with miss chance, that should be easy.

Well I opose here, because damage multiplier does exactly as the name says, it multiplies the damage. 300% ED of course is a multiplier of 4x, but this is kind of the point. It is a lot easier to work with multipliers because you can directly multiply/divide them and see what’s happening.
In my mind MI% as you describe it and DM is interchangeable, everyone can substract 1 from a number. But if I have them in multiplier form, I know in an instance that 50 PTL and 50 Barbarian give me 1.51.5=2.25 → 125% increase in damage, whereas that is not easily visible from 50% and 50%.
I could think about renaming it though, open for suggestions. MI% is not a good choice imho. The purpose here is to be able to compute rapidly what different damage increases yield: 45 Crit% and 225 Crit DMG% together give me 1.547
1.547=2.393 → 139.3% increase in damage.
You can calculate the whole Crit Mod tree with these numbers without even blinking, whereas if I have them in % I need to always do (1 + X%) * (1 + Y%) * (1 + Z%)…

True, I’ll need to rephrase that :slight_smile: .

I’ll simply scratch the term Green Garden there. Why Cosmic Power over Equality? Let me explain: With Equality you need Equivalence as well (+1 Slot). Let’s compare:

  • Baseline (Druidic + 1000 Regeneration, Strength, Intelligence): 1 + 2.25*(1500 + 1500)/4000 = 2.6875
  • With Cosmic: 1 + 2.25*(1500 + 2.25*1500)/4000 = 3.7422
  • With Equivalence + Equality (OH): (1 + 1.3752.25(1500 + 1500)/4000) = 3.3203
  • With Equivalence + Equality (MH): (1 + 1.3752.25(1500 + 1500)/4000) * 1.375 = 4.5654

Therefore:

  • Boost from Cosmic: 3.7422/2.6875 = 1.392 for one slot
  • Boost from Equivalence + Equality (OH): (3.3203/2.6875)^(1/2) = 1.112 per slot
  • Boost from Equivalence + Equality (MH): (4.5654/2.6875)^(1/2) = 1.303 per slot

Equality only gives damage to MH skills, that is the main problem… Green Garden works with SkullShield, which is OH. But even for MH Cosmic is better in the “per slot” sense. For OH Cosmic is better than both slots from Equivalence and Equality combined (I use Taunt and Teleport :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:).

The message was the calculation “per slot” of a combination and how to do it.

Good Points.

Yes I should definitely add Hit Frequency :slight_smile: sure there are other mechanisms, but I cannot compile all :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: only the most common ones used by almost every char. Maybe I’ll add a few more chapters to “What I left out”^^

Thank you for the acknowledgement :relaxed: wrote this as much for others as for myself :wink: of course the guide can and will be improved!

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@Midlumer thank you from all of the Dungeon Questers for taking time to develop your guide. Your document is very professional, well thought out, simplified and easy to understand. You were able to deduce a lot of information that is not readily available to all players. +1

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This is my mistake. What I meant was that for most people damage multiplier is just that, the multiplier. When you ask some one what is the damage multiplier of 100% ED, they will say 2x. If you ask someone what is the multiplier of 200% ED, they will say 3x. Only when you ask them what is the ratio of the 2, will they answer 1.5x. A ratio (MI%) is not a multiplier but a comparison between the different values. For us math users, they are equivalant since we are comparing the multiplier of the extra affix. But for a normal person, it gets confusing.

What I am asking here is for more information on the example. You explained that you were using Druidic for Poison DoT calculation and why Regeneration over Crytal MP Regen but no mention on why Cosmic Power over things like Equality/Plague. I can figure out the answer, but a normal reader might get confused since you are so detailed in explaining your other choices but not this one.

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+1 very detailed.

Hope you could add Hit Frequency here in the future as it is as important as maximizing your damage.
Example, none of this matters when you are playing in 5K M3 floor if you have a very high
damage build but has low hit frequency

:scream: +1

Amazing, very well done @Midlumer! What program did you use for your figures/math, looks very professional :slight_smile:

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I was busy asking for feedback that I totally forgot to ask this. I think it is the PC version of Mathlab.

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:dizzy_face: my brain walk away from my head.

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To the set affixes, my opinion. As a “base” I took Arcanist+Ascendent. Next damage boost is Epiphany with bonus, you only need to stack APS to 70%+, which is DPS anyway, and then you get 70% total damage on top of it. Then there is Adventurer which adds 37.5% and boosts movement speed almost the whole time, I can’t stop using it, really. Then I noticed that as soon as there is like 70% dodge, the Pathfinder set affix also makes a huge boost, and Dodge is important and very useful anyway. The last one I am using is Nadroji for more rare legends, I need ultra rare crystals.
When I tried Plagued and Frozen instead of Pathfinder I had a feeling that I am dealing less damage. Maybe I did something wrong?
Thanks a lot for this awesome guide.

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+99999 awesome thanks for making a guide like this!

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Good day. Would there be an update on this guide for patch 3.0? Also thank you for this guide.

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