1.8.1 test run

I am using my bro’s device to do a 1.8.1 check on the list of Eternals while I write out why I did like the Rogue Weapon ones. But figured why not have some fun with the patch. Here is how much gold I was able to find in a 177% Pack Size and 175% Magic enemy map. My Char only has 555% goldfind/150% Item Quantity and hireling has 650 GF/148% Item Quantity on Mythic3 map.
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This single drop makes me want to keep this save file. Sadly it is from an old save file so it does not have the progress I made in 1.8.0 (I can’t upload save file without upgrading).

Question: it’s been my understanding that the gold find/ luck etc is hard capped and includes all applicable bonuses; such as shrines and EP level. Is that correct?

Also; what floor was that on and is that including selling items or just from gold drops. I ask because unless the gold find is logarithmic those numbers are roughly 12 times what I’m getting with an average of 150% gold find between my two characters when it should only be around 3 times at max gold find. For reference I’m on easy EP, floor 300-320 and getting about 180k between dropped gold and selling items with 165% item find and 150% gold find averages. Luck is about 330% average. The distribution is around 130k dropped gold and 50k items. Variances of maybe 10k in either direction for dropped gold; 5k for items and 10k for total.

My test pool is only 8 floors as I keep forgetting to write down my starting gold before entering a new floor and don’t want to taint the data if I can avoid it. I’m still collecting data on it but currently I’m getting about one-third gross gold per floor than I was prior to 1.8.1.

[quote=“Tpollett”]Question: it’s been my understanding that the gold find/ luck etc is hard capped and includes all applicable bonuses; such as shrines and EP level. Is that correct?
[/quote]
Yes, that should be correct. The only exceptions I’m aware of to get above caps would be hireling gives you a hidden boost to Item Drop, and purchasable boosts should take you above gf/luck/id as well.

As far as differences between amount gained per floor, theres a few things that would factor in. The map bonuses themselves would play a role, Unities said his map has pack size. More kills would naturally be more gold. Just the randomness of map sizes could make one floor vary a lot on how many baddies are present too.

I don’t know these next few things to be fact, but I do believe they are true as well. Increase to rare+ enemies also should increase gold drops, as they should drop larger amounts of gold over a standard normal enemy. Increasing difficulty and floor should also effect the regular amount dropped. For example, Bad Guy may drop 5 gold on easy, 6 on normal, 7 on epic etc.

This pack size affix; is that new? In all the time I’ve been playing I have never seen a map affix that adds pack size. I’ve had more enemies in every different flavor but never a generic pack size increase. If he is talking about the standard + x% to magic/rare/epic enemies I have had those. I’ll have to look into different EP’s providing different gold for killing the same enemies but if there is an increase for floor levels I haven’t seen it between floors 200 and my current floor of 350. As for the more difficult enemies dropping more gold; the difference is not enough to cover the approximately quadrupling necessary to resolve the discrepancy. He is showing 2 million+ gold gained without maxed gold find. Taking into account the difference in his gold find and mine I would have to be getting well over 600k per floor to have those numbers. Even if enemies drop more gold at higher difficulties; quadrupling the drops between easy and mythic 3 ought to be looked at.

I of course have large amounts of variation due to map affixes; as well as between floors with around one hundred enemies and the ones with around two hundred enemies (those seem to be the only numbers enemies come in from my tests). If you want I’ll throw up my current log of floors 343-350 so you can see what variances I’m talking about. I’m just a little annoyed that people are talking about pulling in over a million gold a floor (or 10 million+ in at least one case) and the math simply isn’t there to support that. Without any gold find on easy you should be getting approximately 60k per floor which translates into about 450k with max gold find. Of course on easy you can’t actually have zero gold find. I’m gonna have to remove all gold find and run some very easy floors to determine a base line. If there is a base difference between the different difficulties it would be nice for that information to be available. I’ll reverse engineer the numbers if I have to in order to figure this discrepancy out; but I’d rather not spend the time.

@Tpollett

Pack size is not new, but, it doesn’t come naturally on maps. You need to add it, and it makes a HUGE difference. Even doing maps without it, 1M+ per map is easily possible. I’ve had my counter up to over 600k, and thats not a complete map.

@Tpollett, you need to add it to the map via the Lamrimar crystal. The map I used was 177% pack size so it had 277% more enemies. That alone gives me close to 3x your gold. Item Quantity, Imp, Hound and +175% Magic enemies make up the rest.

My 10mil was a very very flawed estimate that was based on an estimate that Steiger gave me on the change. Estimates based on estimates are sadly very inaccurate. :frowning: My sincererest apologies. 5 mil should be rougly the peak if the map is big enough. Be careful not to use Guidedshot because there will be lots of Frozen and Ghost monsters due to lag.

Ok; thank you very much for that explanation. That accounts for the weird numbers. Thought I was going crazy for a while there.

Are there other affixes which are only available through adding random affixes? Haven’t messed around with map affix adding/removing since they changed it having an effect on the bonuses it shows (the ones for the bonus chest you get at the end). Don’t remember how long ago it was but I do remember being able to remove explosive props from maps and replace it with an affix that isn’t worth as much but didn’t result in me dying every time the cartographer died and the chest spawned on me at EP8.

I must say I’m still not happy with the gold change. Considering unless I get the pack size increase affix the math works out that I will always end up with less gold than was possible prior to this change. The numbers have been fairly consistent that the players got shafted on this. Without using that secret affix the numbers are saying with max gold find I will barely break even with what I was making prior to 1.8.1 with basically no gold find. I like the concept of gold find meaning something; but I disagree with how vital it has been made. I not only have to take up affix slots with gold find; but also have to start adding affixes to maps to get gold. I would have been ok with seeing a reduction in how much I was able to take in. But to be grossing substantially less than I was netting after buying four crystals and converting all crystals found or bought to their maximum ilevel is harsher than I expected. My tests are showing a 75% loss of gold consistently. The gold is simply not dropping in large enough amounts to compensate for the 90% devaluation on items. Im not saying I was expecting to get more gold or even break even; I was expecting between 25-40% loss of income without major changes to my gear. Not 75% loss with the only method of increasing gold gained to be burning large amounts of crystals on a chance to get the magic affix that allows you to actually get more gold than I was getting prior to the update.

It’s made the merchant useless to me. I simply don’t get enough gold to spend it on anything. What little gold I do get has to be used for upgrading crystals and mythstones as the rare and ultra rare crystals are priced too high to risk buying and getting something I will then have to convert. Yes; buying the ultra rare and getting an obsidian would be worth it. Buying an ultra rare and getting anything less than obsidian means I still have to find or buy more crystals then spend gold to convert them. Even assuming I get the set affix Crystal twice in a row (and the one ultra rare I did buy accidently was a salvage Crystal) I would then have to spend an additional million gold to get the obsidian. That means Ive now spent almost 12 million gold on an obsidian. And that’s best case scenario. I don’t disagree with the pricing of the rare and ultra rare crystals; if the gold I was getting was equivalent to pre-1.8.1 I would definitely be buying some. The combination of reduction in gold gained and price of rare/ultra rare eliminates that as a possibility.

Evidently all testing was done using the pack size increase affix because there is no way the gold gained will ever compete with the previous numbers without it. As I mentioned before; without that affix the maximum gold for a floor is right around 450k in drops. That number is right around what I was getting before the update and is approximately 6 times what the gold drop rate was prior to the update. Unless there are more affixes which are only available through Crystal use (which I’m not even going go into how messed up it is for there to be such a game changer that is). Numbers don’t lie. If I’m getting 150k in gold drops with 150% averaged gold increase, a hireling and two dogs; the standard value of 0% gold find is 60k.

I guess it really doesn’t matter though. I can’t even get an answer on the stupid enslaver feat being such a ridiculously large number needed.

I just played through floor 155 (no boss) no gold increase in my character (playing wiz as main warrior as hireling both lvl 99) was able to buy both crystal offerings from the merchant only using the gold farmed from that floor.

While the overall amount you get from selling items is decreased I think I get more gold (overall with selling three bags worth of loot) with the current scheme. Now, it does take me more time to get this amount of gold because I have to clear the floor.

[quote=“Tpollett”]
Evidently all testing was done using the pack size increase affix because there is no way the gold gained will ever compete with the previous numbers without it. As I mentioned before; without that affix the maximum gold for a floor is right around 450k in drops. That number is right around what I was getting before the update and is approximately 6 times what the gold drop rate was prior to the update. Unless there are more affixes which are only available through Crystal use (which I’m not even going go into how messed up it is for there to be such a game changer that is). Numbers don’t lie. If I’m getting 150k in gold drops with 150% averaged gold increase, a hireling and two dogs; the standard value of 0% gold find is 60k.[/quote]

You can’t use a single “fun” run a as precious data. That is only a single run. the amount of gold/map varies greatly as indicated by IDDQD’s statement. I do not play on 1.8.1 yet because there are eternals that I want in 1.8.0 so I cannot give you concrete data.

[quote=“minichat”]@ JTmon - Sat Apr 18, 2015 5:26 pm
What are your average gold pick up per map? Mine’s 500k

@ IDDQD - Sat Apr 18, 2015 5:27 pm
Cant say about average… but values are 30k-2.5m[/quote]

If you are using Pack Size increase stricktly for more gold, then you are playing the game horribly wrong. More enemies = more items (all items, including CS, MS, and equipment). You should ALWAYS be trying to get Pack Size then use Diamonds to reroll the affix. Larimars and Diamonds are easy to get. I have over a thousand of them even after using it on almost every map I buy and get.

Also a second dog will not help you get more gold. There are only so much gold on the map. The hound does not generate gold. I specifically mentionned Imp because he can generate Gold from low end equipments.

Yes, it is a dramatic decrease in gold if you do not have max GF. Sadly, you and I are one of the minority that this greatly and negatively impacts as most players did not value gold before this change (they did not use the merchant). Heck there are many players who did not pick up any items except Legendary ones. I was already dirt poor from buying everything in the Merchant before the patch. :frowning:

This update give players more options to get better gear. Does this mean that you need to change your gear to maximize farming gold? Yes but that is no different than creating gear to farm other things.

@tdaniel: They are not talking about the normal crystal offerings that costs ~50k. It is the 5 mil ultra rare crystals that they desire.

Actually, that’s exactly what a hound does. :wink:

Actually, that’s exactly what a hound does. :wink:[/quote]

Naw, it finds gold in hidden locations around the map. Just like how a second Imp will not spit out more equipment, a second hound will not dig up more gold. But an imp will actually eat up equipment and throw out gold. Thus producing gold that was not generated by the map.

Do 1 vs 2, count times gold is dug up each way over 10 maps or so each, average it out… then get back to me.
Ive watched 2 dogs dig side by side tons of times, but never have I seem 1 dog dig, move over a yard and dig again.

Not necessary, just run arround the empty map. Then add another hound and see if it can dig up more gold. Gtg to work so I’ll do this one I get back. :stuck_out_tongue:

Unities is correct on the dog part. One dog will not dig up the same pile of gold another dog already did.

I would say that my runs were not above average runs, if anything I would say they were sub optimal because of how long it took me to clear the map.