A number of questions about the game mechanics, caps, and effects

Hello!

I’ve been lurking on the forum for a little while looking for answers to various questions, but there are several that I can’t seem to find information about. Instead of trying to find a dozen different relevant threads and asking there, I thought it would be easier for both me and others if I gathered my questions here. If there’s already a thread about something I ask, simply say so and I will look harder for it.

Just to clarify, I’m using an android and patch 1.8.1.

  1. Are +% damage from sets and certain affixes additive or multiplicative?
    I find that one of the most difficult things when theorycrafting a build, is that I can’t find information about what effects are additive, and which are cumulative or multiplicative - the order in which affixes are calculated. For instance, are all bonuses to damage, such as from blood magic, momentum etc, additive (so that two sets with +50% each gives +100% on a 100% dmg base = 200% total) or multiplicative (first set is +50% on a 100% dmg base = 150% dmg, then the second +50% is calculated on that = 225%)?
    Are there any general rules to follow, or is it on a per affix/set basis?
    Looking at damage reduction, I would guess that each instance is calculated after one another, since it would otherwise be simple to make over 100% reduction, but maybe there’s a reduction cap that I don’t know about?

  2. Items effect on damage reduction:
    I’ve noticed that the amount of damage I take differs when putting on different protective items, even though I’m using plagued and my hp/mp stay the same, and there’s no difference in the stat page showing damage reduction and resists. At first it seemed like it improved with item quality and/or item level, but in a few cases it didn’t. I haven’t tested this extensively so I might have made a mistake or overlooked something, but is this a known issue? Maybe a fault in what the stat page shows?

  3. Item caps:
    I’ve seen many references to lists with min and max values of all affixes, and some guides mention a total cap on a stat from all gear (like gold find on gear being capped at 650), but no mention of whether there’s a cap for some stats on a per item basis. For instance, there are several affixes available as a normal, epic, crystal and mythic affix. Can the same type of stat, such as +% wpdmg, +% hp, crit damage or luck, be stacked on the same item as long as they’re from different affix rarity, without any limit but the number of slots, or is there a maximum value for each item?

  4. Deadly arts:
    What is the formula for the damage reduction given per rank? The text in the dictionary is outdated, and on the item it’s too long to fit. I read that it’s simply the same as the deadly strike chance, but then there would be no difference when increasing the rank.
    I did some testing and found that my rogue got a damage reduction from raising deadly strike, even though I didn’t use deadly arts. When I put on rank 1 deadly arts, the reduction stayed the same, so I suppose this is a bug where the effect from wearing it once never stopped working afterwards (a similar thing happened on my wizard, on which skull shield would never stop being active after being used once and changing oh type - the circling skulls animation disappeared but the projectiles kept shooting). Exiting and restarting the game made no difference.
    When I put on a second rank of deadly arts (so rank 2), the damage reduction was less than it was in rank 1 with close to the same deadly strike chance. I tried to match all other things when changing equipment (nothing relevant changed on the stat page), so this seems odd.

Some easier questions (hopefully) .

  1. Crushing blow:
    There’s a formula in the dictionary, but no information about how enemy rarity level is counted. How much does the effect decrease against rare, epic and legendary enemies?

  2. Mana shield:
    The amount of mp lost seem to only depend on the incoming damage, not your defense or max mp. Is there a known formula for how much mp is taken?

  3. Does the talent continuity and time warp only slow down melee, as it says in the dictionary, and not ranged attacks, explosions and similar?

  4. Does enemies largely ignore summoned minions, or will they die like flies in the late game?

  5. It seems that rare, epic and legendary enemies are immune to certain effects like frozen and possibly stun. Is there a list over this?

  6. I’ve read that some fast attacking main skills, like ricochet, does not proc explosions at 5% chance but lower. Is there information gathered about which skills are nerfed this way and by how much?

  7. Is the legendary affix “Blistering” the same as frostbite and high voltage but for poison? It’s not in the dictionary or the wiki.

Thanks in advance!

8.- my summons are still capable of murdering anything below legendary around floor 340, but I noticed the damage they received was growing. In floor 200 they ate anything in my path. In both cases I was playing on mythic 3, AKA maximum difficulty. There is a tanking summon skill, command.

9.- check the enemy affixes on the dictionary.

11.-blight is the poison equivalent for high voltage and frostbiting.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

There are both cap on affixes on gear and affixes on your stats.

An example of cap on affix on gear is based on the rarity of the affix. The weapon dmg +% in epic(orange) affix is capped at 50%, but the legend(red) affix is capped at 100%.

As for the cap on affix on stats, some of them are cap for balancing reasons like
gold find & luck to 650% and dodge & block at 60%.

Some affix do appear in different rarity (weapon dmg +% appear on all affix rarity except on Crystal).

Same type of stats can appear on the same gear.

Example.
Custom Weapon
Weapon Dmg +100% (legend)
Weapon Dmg +50% (Mythic)
Weapon Dmg +50% (epic)
Weapon Dmg +5000 (epic)
Element Dmg +50% (epic)
Element Dmg +5000 (Epic)

There is a limit of 6 affix each gear for a total of 36 affix(not counting pet).

[quote=“lordknightstradmore”]
Same type of stats can appear on the same gear.[/quote]

No, it cannot, unless you are abusing bugs.

@OP:

  1. sets r multiplicative

  2. different enemies deal different dmg also all DMG varies. And there are plenty of ways to reduce dmg. So depending on your equip how much dmg you take can change dramatically. There is also map affixes that changes enemy dmg.

  3. in the stats page if someting has a hard cap it will be in []. Else it will be the highest of what affixes you can get.

  4. deadly arts’ reduction = your Deadlystrike chance. Deadly arts rank does not matter.

  5. dmg you take is after reductions not before. 1 hp loss = 1 mana unless you have barrier which increases efficiency to a maximum of 1hp = 0.4 mana.

  6. timewarp slows enemy projectiles by default as stated in the description. Continuity allows it to slow melee enemies too.

  7. depends on your build. Summons are very dependent on your build. Normal minions have 1.5x OH dmg and 1x hp. Command has 1x OH dmg, and 1.5x hp. They also inherit your armour and various other stats too.

  8. all enemies become immune to Control effects (fear, blind, taunt, stun, frozen) after 4 applications. And since players tend to do 100x attacks per second, enemies instantly become immune after the first application. XD Mulums specifically are immune to Stun and taunt.

  9. Explosion is not a Proc. All Procs have a chance of casting a skill every second of attacking (as stated in their descriptions). The number of attacks you do per second does not affect that chance. So if you have 50% Proc, the every second on CONTINUOUSLY attacking, you will have 50% chance of getting that special skill to be casted. So even if you do 1 attack per second or 10 attacks per second, that chance remains the same at 50% per SECOND of continuous attack.

  10. blistering = fire.

You can find a lot of information on the company blog too:
shinyboxgames.com/blog/2015/04/p … available/

1 Like

Last time I checked I was pretty sure I can stack 100% WD (red) and 2x 50% WD (orange and purple) for a total of 200% WD increase

Mythstones are a separate game mechanic. They are not affixes. (The affix is an empty slot) The fact that you can add 50% Epic affix to a weapon with 100% WD is a bug that is fixed in 1.9.

Oh ok, thought it was intentional that I can stack red and orange :smile:

Thanks for the answers so far. Some questions are answered fully, but some need clarification or simply confirmation.

[quote=“Clogon”][quote=“lordknightstradmore”]
Same type of stats can appear on the same gear.[/quote]

No, it cannot, unless you are abusing bugs.

@OP:

  1. sets r multiplicative

  2. different enemies deal different dmg also all DMG varies. And there are plenty of ways to reduce dmg. So depending on your equip how much dmg you take can change dramatically. There is also map affixes that changes enemy dmg.

  3. in the stats page if someting has a hard cap it will be in []. Else it will be the highest of what affixes you can get.

  4. deadly arts’ reduction = your Deadlystrike chance. Deadly arts rank does not matter.

  5. dmg you take is after reductions not before. 1 hp loss = 1 mana unless you have barrier which increases efficiency to a maximum of 1hp = 0.4 mana.

  6. timewarp slows enemy projectiles by default as stated in the description. Continuity allows it to slow melee enemies too.

  7. depends on your build. Summons are very dependent on your build. Normal minions have 1.5x OH dmg and 1x hp. Command has 1x OH dmg, and 1.5x hp. They also inherit your armour and various other stats too.

  8. all enemies become immune to Control effects (fear, blind, taunt, stun, frozen) after 4 applications. And since players tend to do 100x attacks per second, enemies instantly become immune after the first application. XD Mulums specifically are immune to Stun and taunt.

  9. Explosion is not a Proc. All Procs have a chance of casting a skill every second of attacking (as stated in their descriptions). The number of attacks you do per second does not affect that chance. So if you have 50% Proc, the every second on CONTINUOUSLY attacking, you will have 50% chance of getting that special skill to be casted. So even if you do 1 attack per second or 10 attacks per second, that chance remains the same at 50% per SECOND of continuous attack.

  10. blistering = fire.

You can find a lot of information on the company blog too:
shinyboxgames.com/blog/2015/04/p … available/[/quote]

Thanks for the blog reference - I had missed that one.

  1. If all sets are multiplicative, then how about mythic effects like skilled, exposed & ruptured? What about frostbite and similar? Are they all multiplicative (unless they’re in the dmg formula, like +% elemental dmg and +% wpdmg)?

  2. In the case I described, it was all against a small group of the same enemy on one floor. I went to floor 101 and picked out a small group of slimes, which I let hit me continually while exchanging different items to see how much dmg I received (among other things, testing the deadly strike effect without deadly arts as described in question 4). While wearing plagued (1), I then changed different items for head, ring etc, and took note not to change my hp or resists, so my defence should be static. Yet, the damage I received changed, and I have no idea why. So, is there a formula working here (such as on item level and/or quality), is the information on the stat page wrong/inadequate, or have I made some mistake while changing items?

  3. So if I understand correctly, I can stack the same type of effect as long as it’s from different affix types? So I can have one normal affix with +% wpdmg, another with an epic affix that does the same, and a third with a legendary affix, but I cannot have two of the epic affix?

  4. I started a new wizard, and in floor three or four at mythic 3 I take 8 damage from a specific enemy per hit. Activating mana shield, I loose about 65mp from the same hits. Changing items to increase resistance (not armour though) and thereby overall dmg reduction, did not change the amount of mp lost.

  5. So unless the enemy has an affix such as “cannot be stunned”, or is of a specific type like alums, then all enemies regardless of rarity can be stunned, frozen, blinded etc up to four times?

  6. I used the term proc incorrectly, but thank you for clarifying how that works. Given that I misused the term, my original question remains - does the chance of triggering explosion vary for certain skills?

  1. different affixes function differently and hence will multiply. But things that do the same thing, like Vampiric touch and Lacerate, they will add.

  2. again, you are not giving out enough information. There are many ways to affect dmg reduction. Also I do hope you know that Plague works on Current HP and that you are healing your self to full before doing these number comparisons.

  3. As stated above, an item cannot get the same affix regardless of affix tier.

  4. I could be wrong (not a wiz player) or this could be a bug.

  5. yes, each application has reduced duration.

  6. again what I stated only applies to Procs. Explosion is not a proc. Regardless of how an enemy is hit, they have a 5% chance to cause an explosion.

[quote=“Clogon”]1) different affixes function differently and hence will multiply. But things that do the same thing, like Vampiric touch and Lacerate, they will add.

  1. again, you are not giving out enough information. There are many ways to affect dmg reduction. Also I do hope you know that Plague works on Current HP and that you are healing your self to full before doing these number comparisons.

  2. As stated above, an item cannot get the same affix regardless of affix tier.

  3. I could be wrong (not a wiz player) or this could be a bug.

  4. yes, each application has reduced duration.

  5. again what I stated only applies to Procs. Explosion is not a proc. Regardless of how an enemy is hit, they have a 5% chance to cause an explosion.[/quote]

That cleared up nr 1, 9 and 10 as far as I’m concerned.

  1. I did not know that plagued worked on current health, so that’s probably what I was missing! I’ll do some tests and return if it doesn’t add up, but that should be the reason.

  2. But I have an item with two affixes of +% block, one from a normal affix and one epic. The same is true with another item with two +hp, and another with dodge. Is this a bug, or am I misinterpreting you when you say that the same affix can’t occur regardless of affix tier?

As I stated above, this is a bug that will be fixed in 1.9

I’m sorry that it’s been some time since my last post. I’m hoping to bury this thread now.

  1. I’m a bit confused; so sets aren’t multiplicative with everything - they’re additive with some talents that do the same/similar thing?

  2. I did the following test: Put on one piece of gear with plagued, went to floor 102 m1, and let myself get hit by a group of slimes. Regardless of how much HP there was currently left, the damage I received stayed unchanged, and the armor rating in the stat page did not change (i tried putting items on and of, healing in between etc, nothing changed)

Conclusion; plagued works on max HP, not current.

I then tested the earlier mentioned item differences again. This time I then took three amulets, without any elemental resist, and stripped them clean of affixes with quarts, so the only difference was the item level and item quality, and what do you know! They changed the resists in the stat page, and I must have missed this the first time. The amount and what they changed followed no given logic though. Two of the amulets were at lv100, one had quality 0 and 600 AR, the other quality -3 and 582 AR. The former gave more armor and some arcane resist, while the latter had less armor but gave all resist 15.
A clean chest piece and another with only sockets gave similar small differences in arcane resist.

Conclusion; defensive items give resist, and I was mistaken in my earlier observation. The factors for what resists are given and how much is not clear with this short test.

  1. Yes, that is correct. Vampiric trouch and Goldveins, for example, are additive with any Bleed DMG affix. Rage is additive with Crit DMG affixes. While, Permafrost is additive with MP Absorb. So on and so forth.

  2. Thank you for finding that Plague bug in 1.8.1. It will be addressed. Equipment’s give resistance based on their level and element. But the fact that you received all resist sounds like a bug to me. I will look further into it when I get the chance. Again thank you for helping us find these oddities!

Items have different natures. You can check them by going into their detailed page. Different natures have different effects. From the looks of this, the item in question is Blessed.

Thank you for taking some time with my questions, and I’m glad that I could be of some help.

You are very welcomed. If you have any other questions, don’t hesitate to ask. It is great that you aren’t just receiving information but is providing it to many people as well.

What’s better between +10000 element dmg and +40% element dmg (eternal item) ? :dieter:
(Assuming these 2 affixes are the only one, no eleDMG+ and no eleDMG% )

It depends on the weapon. On a Ragnarok Chakram, the 40% is better.

I did have another question actually, that I have trouble finding out myself. I read somewhere that certain legendary affixes can’t be rolled for - if you want them they must already be on the item. Is this correct, and if so, is there a list of these affixes?

None of the new legend affixes listed here aside from the procs. +2 skill, +2 set, stun immunity and mirrorcast cannot be obtained via ruby as well.