It’s really annoying to switch this ring on, activate shrine, and switch back. I would really like it if this specific Mythic worked as long as it’s in your backpack. So you could put it in your stash if you didn’t want it to do its effect.
seriously, this just reeks of too much spoonfeeding in the game. what is going to be next ? allow sanctuary, resourceful and draught to be active in the backpack ? why not just allow every mythic then to be active in the backpack ?
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oorrrr…just hunter ring…ya know, cause hunter ring has no effect on actual game balance…think before you post.
It actually has an effect. If you don’t like to keep switching you have an option to implement it on your main ring the one you always wear. You’re not force to always switch.
The effect on game balance is you lose 1 affix slot for convenience.
I do switch as well but it’s not really that annoying for me. Some for efficiency and convenience prefer to have it when they are farming.
From a game design perspective this is a terrible philosophy. When designing a game the developers main goal is to maximize fun gameplay and minimize tedious or complex additions that do not add to gameplay. Sacrificing an affix slot (not to mention the million crystals to make this ring) takes away from game play for a gimick…nothing more than a gimmick. And that is why both you and I switch the rings instead of affixing it to our main ring, because we don’t want to sacrifice gameplay for convenience. The onus isn’t on the player to make a game fun, it is on the developer. And switching the ring on and off also takes away from real gameplay.
I’d be in favor of removing the ring all together and reducing the feat requirement for killing elites, but I know that might not be a favorable position for people who spent a lot to make a hunter ring.
seriously, this just reeks of too much spoonfeeding in the game. what is going to be next ? allow sanctuary, resourceful and draught to be active in the backpack ? why not just allow every mythic then to be active in the backpack ?[/quote]
Thought the exact same thing when I read that 
Yo once you equip an item you get every effects permanent ! 
[quote=“lunix57”]
From a game design perspective this is a terrible philosophy. When designing a game the developers main goal is to maximize fun gameplay and minimize tedious or complex additions that do not add to gameplay. Sacrificing an affix slot (not to mention the million crystals to make this ring) takes away from game play for a gimick…nothing more than a gimmick. And that is why both you and I switch the rings instead of affixing it to our main ring, because we don’t want to sacrifice gameplay for convenience. The onus isn’t on the player to make a game fun, it is on the developer. And switching the ring on and off also takes away from real gameplay.
I’d be in favor of removing the ring all together and reducing the feat requirement for killing elites, but I know that might not be a favorable position for people who spent a lot to make a hunter ring.[/quote]
from another game design perspective, everything you make for your setup has to have a setback as such that you cannot have everything that you like easily. heck, if that were the case, what’s the point of eternalized, crystalline and nadroji or basically every affix that doesn’t make your character significant in combat then because technically they don’t add anything significant to your character except make you farm easier at a cost of being easily killed in battle ? hunter is basically like that as well.
think before you even post because this literally reeks of spoonfeeding players. a lot of RPGs don’t make farming setups convenient that they can afford to be strong on every aspect of the game
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I’m agreeing with you ^
Wait am I the only one that equips and unequips my eternal +10 pick up radius for when I want to pick up loot? Damn I am too addicted to this game. Oh wait maybe because you can’t do that yet… I’ll have to double check on that.
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[quote=“Clogon”][quote=“solkyro”]
from an another game design perspective, everything you make for your setup has to have a setback as such that you cannot have everything that you like easily. heck, if that were the case, what’s the point of eternalized, crystalline and nadroji or basically every affix that doesn’t make your character significant in combat then because technically they don’t add anything significant to your character except make you farm easier at a cost of being easily killed in battle ? hunter is basically like that as well.
[/quote]
Wait am I the only one that equips and unequips my eternal +10 pick up radius for when I want to pick up loot? Damn I am too addicted to this game. Oh wait maybe because you can’t do that yet… I’ll have to double check on that.[/quote]
I already asked Chris if we could have an option to “create our own sets”, so technically you could put 6 items together as a “set”, and add a button ingame to switch these “sets”, I think it would be very helpful for player who wanna switch elements, switch dmg to defense, switch dmg to farming… etc…
I don’t like where this thread went and is continuing to go and how everyone seems to be ganging up on me on an off topic discussion about characters being able to have every stat easily. I was merely suggesting ONE item work from the back pack. ONE feature that is more of a gimmick than a feature. ONE effect that does not change the power of your character in any way shape or form. I don’t understand why there is a gang up of hate on a topic that is a suggestion. Makes me not want to post my ideas any more.
hunter is not a gimmick or else every farming related affix is a gimmick. it’s a farming affix to find epic monsters to reach that mythic monster that drops an assured eternal item after killing 10 such monsters. what you don’t understand is the philosophy behind it and instead you focus on what is easier to do regardless of its consequence in the future. if devs start to basically streamline the system to a point that a player just needs to use an attack and get everything in one shot, then there’s no strategy in the game, just mindless action.
this request is practically the start of such bad version of streamlining. such bad suggestions need to be disagreed on hard. given your 4 past suggestion, you prioritize too much on what is easier to play, not on what will happen to the game in the long run.
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Do you realize a game is about having fun?
And if yes, do you honestly think that it is fun to switch your hunter ring on and off?
Do you think it adds anything to your experience of the game?
And yes my suggestions were all convenience suggestions because the game gets in its own way VERY often. Instead of being easy to use it become hard for no reason, beyond poorly implemented mechanics. Which then are tried to be made up for by creating affixes or items to get the broken mechanics out of your way. And personally i would rather play the game (which to me is about getting sweet loot, killing monsters, and crunching numbers to find awesome new builds) than do a million other things that detract from the core of the game, JUST to overcome broken mechanics…
This strawman argument you keep bringing up about how one change would lead to this and that and the other thing is entirely irrelevant to fixing a gimmick.
And yes it IS a gimmick, even in your post you said the entire point is to complete the feat to get the eternal drop. Which is exactly what I mean, the hunter ring AND the feat were created as a gimmick to get eternal items. The hunter ring could easily be removed and the feat requirement lowered, which would remove the gimmick of the hunter ring and keep the exact same amount of playability, without adding a boring necessity of switching out rings every 30 seconds
[quote=“lunix57”]Do you realize a game is about having fun?
And if yes, do you honestly think that it is fun to switch your hunter ring on and off?
Do you think it adds anything to your experience of the game?
And yes my suggestions were all convenience suggestions because the game gets in its own way VERY often. Instead of being easy to use it become hard for no reason, beyond poorly implemented mechanics. Which then are tried to be made up for by creating affixes or items to get the broken mechanics out of your way. And personally i would rather play the game (which to me is about getting sweet loot, killing monsters, and crunching numbers to find awesome new builds) than do a million other things that detract from the core of the game, JUST to overcome broken mechanics…
This strawman argument you keep bringing up about how one change would lead to this and that and the other thing is entirely irrelevant to fixing a gimmick.
And yes it IS a gimmick, even in your post you said the entire point is to complete the feat to get the eternal drop. Which is exactly what I mean, the hunter ring AND the feat were created as a gimmick to get eternal items. The hunter ring could easily be removed and the feat requirement lowered, which would remove the gimmick of the hunter ring and keep the exact same amount of playability, without adding a boring necessity of switching out rings every 30 seconds[/quote]
the game is about having fun but if you are going to sacrifice brainpower and hard choices over the integrity of the game in the long run then what’s the point of having fun in it ?
i have two hunter rings because i farm crystals and collect rare legends accordingly. not that it matters given that the floors i tend to farm are capable of one shotting me because of reduced defenses in favor of farming capability but that’s a choice i made when i created setup to farm and collect and it definitely adds experience on my end given that i can easily reach the 10 mythic monster achievement for that assured eternal item.
honestly, have you gone past floor 700 or reached floor 900 ? because as far as i have noticed, you don’t exactly care on map affixes. there’s enough tell tale sign that you don’t push your build hard enough.
there’s no strawman argument here. you just don’t see the philosophy behind it and instead you want the game to basically cater too much on our end. what you see that are “broken mechanics” are merely ways for you to work your build accordingly.
the final part is the point where i understand that you want the game to be catered down on your level of expertise. not saying i am an expert but that ridiculously low requirement is nearly equivalent to that old crystal and mythstone achievement that broke the game because of how easily crystal affixes were farmed.
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So you are asserting that it requires brainpower to switch the hunter ring on and off…I feel sorry for your limited mind
[quote=“solkyro”]honestly, have you gone past floor 700 or reached floor 900 ? because as far as i have noticed, you don’t exactly care on map affixes. there’s enough tell tale sign that you don’t push your build hard enough.
[/quote]
I think you are just saying stuff to be dumb at this point. My highest map is floor 500ish on Mythic 3, I am completely immune to damage at that level and I kill everything very quickly. I don’t bother going higher, because it is completely inefficient to go higher. There is no benefit to loot drops. Also with the amount of glitches in the game I would rather wait for 1.9.
[quote=“solkyro”] there’s no strawman argument here. you just don’t see the philosophy behind it and instead you want the game to basically cater too much on our end. what you see that are “broken mechanics” are merely ways for you to work your build accordingly.
[/quote]
I think you don’t know what a strawman argument is so I’ll provide a definition: A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent’s argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent.
No where am I talking about philosophy, no where am I talking about making all mythics work from your back pack. No where am I talking about the broken achievment from the past. And no where am I talking about something that hinders the integrity of the game. Those are all arguments YOU are bringing up and refuting to refute my suggestion, which is that the hunter ring, AND ONLY THE HUNTER RING, should be reworked in some way.
The philosophy behind the hunter ring is and was to add a mythic to the game to make the feat for eternal drop easier to obtain. However, adding the hunter ring SACRIFICES THE INTEGRITY of the game by FORCING every player to have a hunter ring (which completely eliminates the choice you are trying to assert) and in addition to being forced to have a hunter ring, you are forced to either switch the hunter ring on and off or sacrifice an affix slot (and crystals and mythstones) to alleviate the tedious boringness of switching the ring on and off.
The fact that you think this requires brainpower scares me. The fact that you think you understand the philosophy behind the hunter ring scares me. And the fact that you truly believe good game design is about forcing the player choose between fun and convenience really makes me lose faith that you have any understanding of game design.
This is 100% speculative, and 100% only intended to flame me for no reason beyond your own insecurities. I never said anything about a specific number for the requirement that would be “ridiculously” low. You could easily do some math that would tell you hunter ring adds on average 3 elite’s per floor. It takes 500 elites to get the eternal. Excluding the wildcards of +epic monsters affix and enslavers that’s 125 floors to get the eternal. Now take out the hunter ring that is adding 3 elites a floor and reduce the requirement to 250. Now the monster shrine becomes useful again (it is made completely useless by the hunter ring, which is ANOTHER game design flaw with the hunter ring.) The amount of farming required to get the eternal remains basically the same (because now you have the bonus elites from monster shrines added) and you have removed an unneccessary gimmick. I think it is you who does not understand game design philosophy…or math…or logic
the brain power part is where you find the necessary support on your build depending on your agenda for that moment.
so you don’t push your build hard enough just because it is “inefficient”. i would find that even dumber because basically you are afraid of losses and you don’t dare to challenge.
there was no strawman in my argument because your argument basically stems on ease of access and apparent lack of choice to build around that affix. you focused on it too much that all your arguments only accounts on current effects, not on long term ones. heck, if there was a point in the game that supported my argument, it’s their numerous massive nerfings that made the game to what it is now. why should they just focus on one affix to make it annoying easy for us to that we don’t need to even care for it ? then what happens afterwards, do you suggest again to make the game a whole easier than this current iteration because you gotten annoyed again with certain setup ?
the fact that you cannot see a solution beyond adding another affix on the hunter ring or not see its long term effects terrifies me that you would rather choose to pander to the players too often that needed. also, i never technically needed the hunter ring for the longest time til i chose to go farming and collecting.
enslavers don’t count as epic monsters as far as i remember (even if the do count, they don’t appear on every floor). anything lower than the average 500 floors worth of floor hunting to get an assured eternal becomes bearable to spam on the 200th floor accordingly since 1 removal of legend monster requirement is an equivalent of the average 50 floors worth of hunting without using the hunter ring. given their history, if they are going to nerf, it’s a lot more than 50 epic monsters worth. i’m not adding the occassional fluff of multiple epic monsters that can happen in a map with the right map affix building and right achievement hoard. heck, i’ve gotten 30+ epic monster on merely spamming the 200th floor for that monster shrine in 15 minutes or so. you basically want make that kind of spamming easier.
as for the flaming part, not intentional because the game itself has a lot of possible strategies to work on. i just find it more ridiculous that you want me to spam a technique more easily.
Ok… Let me see if I can help…
[quote=“lunix57”][quote=“solkyro”]
the game is about having fun but if you are going to sacrifice brainpower and hard choices over the integrity of the game in the long run then what’s the point of having fun in it ?
[/quote]
So you are asserting that it requires brainpower to switch the hunter ring on and off…I feel sorry for your limited mind
Too bad I don’t have the context. My guess is Solkyro is saying that planning your build requires brainpower and sometimes you must sacrifice convenience (Hunter Mythic) for survivability/damage.
[quote=“solkyro”]honestly, have you gone past floor 700 or reached floor 900 ? because as far as i have noticed, you don’t exactly care on map affixes. there’s enough tell tale sign that you don’t push your build hard enough.
[/quote]
I think you are just saying stuff to be dumb at this point. My highest map is floor 500ish on Mythic 3, I am completely immune to damage at that level and I kill everything very quickly. I don’t bother going higher, because it is completely inefficient to go higher. There is no benefit to loot drops. Also with the amount of glitches in the game I would rather wait for 1.9.
That’s quite impressive. I’ve only gotten as far as floor 250 on Legend and 320 something on Normal (I’m on the Normal ep highest floor leaderboard). As far as not going higher, that’s basically the game’s goal: to reach the highest floor you can!
[quote=“solkyro”] there’s no strawman argument here. you just don’t see the philosophy behind it and instead you want the game to basically cater too much on our end. what you see that are “broken mechanics” are merely ways for you to work your build accordingly.
[/quote]
I think you don’t know what a strawman argument is so I’ll provide a definition: A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent’s argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent.
No where am I talking about philosophy, no where am I talking about making all mythics work from your back pack. No where am I talking about the broken achievment from the past. And no where am I talking about something that hinders the integrity of the game. Those are all arguments YOU are bringing up and refuting to refute my suggestion, which is that the hunter ring, AND ONLY THE HUNTER RING, should be reworked in some way.
Unfortunately, as inconvient the Hunter Ring is, having it work from the backpack is spoonfeeding. At the very most, I’d be okay with the Hunter Ring working if either of your characters have it equipped. That could be a reasonable compromise as I still lose atleast one slot to the Hunter Mythic, but I also don’t have to switch it out as much (hireling => less-equipped).
The philosophy behind the hunter ring is and was to add a mythic to the game to make the feat for eternal drop easier to obtain. However, adding the hunter ring SACRIFICES THE INTEGRITY of the game by FORCING every player to have a hunter ring (which completely eliminates the choice you are trying to assert) and in addition to being forced to have a hunter ring, you are forced to either switch the hunter ring on and off or sacrifice an affix slot (and crystals and mythstones) to alleviate the tedious boringness of switching the ring on and off.
Not true, with enough diligence, you can finish the feat without the Hunter Ring. Therefore, your argument about it being forced is invalid.
The fact that you think this requires brainpower scares me. The fact that you think you understand the philosophy behind the hunter ring scares me. And the fact that you truly believe good game design is about forcing the player choose between fun and convenience really makes me lose faithp that you have any understanding of game design.
Don’t forget the programmer too! It is much harder to implement your suggestion than to have it work as it does right now! Sometimes, extensiblity, fun, or convenience must be sacrificed due to time constraints or lack of ideas!
[quote=“solkyro”]the final part is the point where i understand that you want the game to be catered down on your level of expertise. not saying i am an expert but that ridiculously low requirement is nearly equivalent to that old crystal and mythstone achievement that broke the game because of how easily crystal affixes were farmed.
That old rq was only broken in 1 patch imho – the one that reduced CS/ms prices. Before that, it was unbalanced, but not broken imo.
[/quote]
This is 100% speculative, and 100% only intended to flame me for no reason beyond your own insecurities. I never said anything about a specific number for the requirement that would be “ridiculously” low. You could easily do some math that would tell you hunter ring adds on average 3 elite’s per floor. It takes 500 elites to get the eternal. Excluding the wildcards of +epic monsters affix and enslavers that’s 125 floors to get the eternal. Now take out the hunter ring that is adding 3 elites a floor and reduce the requirement to 250. Now the monster shrine becomes useful again (it is made completely useless by the hunter ring, which is ANOTHER game design flaw with the hunter ring.)
Pardon me, but that last statement is false – it still spawns an epic monster. 2 > 1.
The amount of farming required to get the eternal remains basically the same (because now you have the bonus elites from monster shrines added) and you have removed an unneccessary gimmick. I think it is you who does not understand game design philosophy…or math…or logic
Yet I do as I’ve programmed before (amateur btw) and am excellent at math. Basically, I think you need to look from a wider perspective than just your own.
[/quote]
As far as math goes:
HR = get_ran(2, 1,3) --> 1/6 for 2, 2/6 for 3, 3/6 for 4, 2/6 for 5, 1/6 for 6
Shrine = get_ran(1, 1,6) --> 1/6 chance for Summon
Carto = 1
Enslaver = get_ran(1, 1,8) --> Rough Estimate of Enslaver spawns
On average, that give us ~56 per ten floors with HR
Without it, ~13 per ten floors
500 / 55 = 9r5 --> 9 1/11 --> 9.09090909 * 10 floors for feat
250 / 12 = 20r10 --> 20 5/6 --> 20.83333333333 * 10 floors for feat using your suggestion
(I rounded to easier numbers)
This excludes +% epic enemies and the enslaver estimate may be inaccurate.
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Ironic right? You called out that the post was a gang up of hate.
Some of your reply to solkyro
“think before you post.”
“So you are asserting that it requires brainpower to switch the hunter ring on and off…I feel sorry for your limited mind”
“I think you are just saying stuff to be dumb at this point”
“The fact that you think this requires brainpower scares me”
“This is 100% speculative, and 100% only intended to flame me for no reason beyond your own insecurities”
And solkyro is flaming you? >.>
On topic: monster shrine is still useful even if we have hunter rings it’s a +1 on your epic monster. I do like it more than any other shrines.
Yes
[quote=“Ircher”]
As far as math goes:
HR = get_ran(2, 1,3) --> 1/6 for 2, 2/6 for 3, 3/6 for 4, 2/6 for 5, 1/6 for 6
Shrine = get_ran(1, 1,6) --> 1/6 chance for Summon
Carto = 1
Enslaver = get_ran(1, 1,8) --> Rough Estimate of Enslaver spawns
On average, that give us ~56 per ten floors with HR
Without it, ~13 per ten floors
500 / 55 = 9r5 --> 9 1/11 --> 9.09090909 * 10 floors for feat
250 / 12 = 20r10 --> 20 5/6 --> 20.83333333333 * 10 floors for feat using your suggestion
(I rounded to easier numbers)
This excludes +% epic enemies and the enslaver estimate may be inaccurate.[/quote]
The point I was trying to make is that it wouldn’t be hard to do some math to make the feat be equivalent to the way it is now except also by removing hunter ring. I don’t know the code so I don’t know the actual numbers, so anything real numbers would totally be speculative, which is why i didn’t try to guess at any real numbers.
The point is the feat number could be adjusted so that it is equivalent to the 9.090 * 10 in your example.
I don’t think slovkyo is speaking english anymore so I can’t respond, too many logical fallacies for me.
Additionally, I am a proffesional software engineer, game developer, and game designer and I have faced decisions like these many many times. And the basics of game design come down to very simply asking the question, Is the item/ability/power I am adding going to add to the game or take away from it. And all I am saying is that it takes away from the core of the game (looting, killing monsters, and creating builds) and adds nothing to the core of the game.
I love that they are nerfing blood magic and leech, because this means they understand what I am trying to say. Which is that players are forced to have blood magic and leech with the current implementation which takes away from the core of the game and takes away the players having to make hard choices. They are taking away from the current build of the game by nerfing those abilities, but they are adding so much to the complexity and strategy behind building characters that it makes it definitely worth it. They can do the same with the hunter ring.