The Immortal Build - Our 2 Cents


#1

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Introduction

I am speaking on behalf of @Mr_Scooty and myself in this post. If you came here to see how the Immortal Build works, let us disappoint you right away: We won’t tell you. There is a lot of discussion lately on how it works - we thought about it a long time and decided to set some things straight.
Yes we won’t tell you how it works. But we are however going to tell you what you would need to beat it more easily. We will also tell you why you don’t really want to go down that road and create an anti-build. And last but not least, we will tell you why you don’t want to have an Immortal yourself and why @Mr_Scooty and I want it nerfed.


Intention

In the beginning it sounded intriguing to have a build that was crazy hard to beat. But as we progressed and the new patch got released we witnessed our perspective changing… We finished the build solely for demonstrating purposes.
We want to demonstrate that the arena is too tanky!

And not by little. There are numerous tanks out there which are almost impossible to beat even if you put everything in damage, even with the knowledge I have about this game. You’ll then just get destroyed by CV’s Torrents because you don’t have enough EHP.
This is mainly because you can gain way more EHP from the set affixes than you can draw damage from them. The other way to go is to go tanky as well - the outcome is a tough-to-beat char which doesn’t deal much damage. More often then not draws are needed to amp up the damage enough to kill the opponent.
This takes time and makes the arena slow. To demonstrate how much of a pain it can be, we’ve put this build in the arena… It is there to show that this is not the way to go. We need more damage dealing capabilities and less absorption in the arena.

One way would be to give sets more damage options with less drawbacks. And less EHP. A very simple one would be setting the general 95% damage reduction to 90%, effectively doubling all damage. I am more in favor of the first option, evolving set affixes towards a balance between damage dealing and EHP increasing capabilities.
And changing CV in such a way that it doesn’t ruin glasscannons completely.


Why we won’t tell you how it’s done

We can’t take credit for the idea ourselves. We just stumbled across it, reverse-engineered and perfected it… And there are still some things which can be improved.
We have invested a huge amount of time and resources into this build, ranging from complicated simulations to tests for which we needed to roll a lot of equipment. This trial and error campaign did cost us a lot of crystals which we also had to farm beforehand.
Maybe it becomes obvious now that we won’t simply put everything out there so you can copy it without making the same hard effort we had to make.
If you want it, you’ll have to go the same way. But we will give you even more reasons why you don’t want to go down that road.


What it does

This build will:

  • Draw you x to xx rounds.
  • Each round all damage output increases by 25%.
  • After x-xx rounds the damage will become high enough that either you kill us or our build kills you.

We’ve positioned it in Div1 some weeks ago and never played it (@Mr_Scooty placed it #1, me at #8 if I remember correctly). Mine stayed continuously between rank 5-8 without dropping with MMRs between 1500 and 1600. His stayed at the top throughout the whole time.
This also means it has an AI win-loose ratio of 50% to 50% in Div1.


Why you don’t want it

If you’ve read carefully the paragraph above, you will have noticed that I didn’t play it. We used another char to get the MMR for Div1.
While it is a pain for you to play against it, we face the same pain playing it. We draw you the same amount of rounds you draw us. It’s just no fun at all in the long run. Each match takes ages. If I were to get 500 MMR with this char to take #1 I would need to play for a full painful week, several hours a day.

There is not a single easy win with this char, on both sides. So do you really want to dump tons of Amethysts and Obsidians in a char you can’t enjoy playing?


How to beat it more rapidly, and why you don’t want to

As you already know, it is of course not impossible to beat.

Both are right, it can of course be killed. If you remember the pictures from the beginning (btw. they are not up to date), the build has low HP. You can reduce the number of rounds you’ll have to go against it with the build’s only major weakness:

  • Spike damage.

You would need to slam a lot of Crit%, Crit DMG% and ideally Deadly Strike onto your char.

But beware, if you are now thinking:

Good - I’m gonna get Crit%, Crit DMG% and Deadly Strike!

Don’t!

You will involuntarily ruin your build just to beat us. You will draw the short straw against all other opponents!
You will rule our build yes, but Crits are normally a horrible idea and you will be torn to pieces by everyone else.

Creating a build that beneficially employs Crits requires deep knowledge of all associated mechanisms and we see way more people failing miserably than people successfully implementing it for PvP.


Why it should be nerfed (and tankiness in general)

It destroys the arena. It’s no fun to suffer through several draws before anything happens… That is why not only this build, but tankiness in general should be reduced.
Even if we loose it is a lot more fun loosing in 3-5 rounds than in 5-8 or even 13-15. That is also why @Mr_Scooty and I are working on new builds; we want to eventually retire the Immortal Build. We don’t play it. It is just a demonstration on what is wrong and possible in the current arena.

And because we want to play, we’ll be back with another kind of pain for you later ;).


Scooty Gift: Immortal Build Reveal
Anti-immortal build
Important thing about build that can kill anything even immortal
The trivia of Immortal build
Im curious
#2

This is the message I wished to spread as I agree about how tanky arena is. The immortal build proves just how far you can be tanky.

Yes f00kee can rapidly kill it with spike damage but I don’t go down that road since it’s not worth using Crit in PvP when you can already last longer and deal more without the need of crits. Sure lots of draws but ideally you want a build that beats any and every build and not an anti build.

I built my discordance orb rogue because I wanted to see my dream idea achieving something but also because I wanted to shift the meta to be not too tanky but that won’t happen at all yet.


#3

Why not just let the devs add more power on items? I mean its really unfair to others that the immortal build existed, wouldnt it be reasonable to just power up the gears? … But maybe im just a fool talking hahaha, there are definitely builds that can easily defeat the immortal build out there like cuzegs lmao! Haahah


#4

Damage can already get very high in PvP but it’s really the damage reduction that seriously hinders potential.

Balance builds are alright but there are two extremes in PvP. The build with all dmg and the build which is immortal.


#5

I think so too.


#6

How is that possible? looking at those screen shots make me jealous lmao! 300k hp with 6k power??!! I mean wowwww id like to make a build that equals or surpasses that one day!! :joy::joy::joy::joy:


#7

Make it draws till 11 to 15 brother. Mine got 550k HP and 5600 Power. 15th Draw. :laughing:


#8

What do you mean exactly?


#9

I think he means that at 15th draw, he beat the immortal build a.k.a frustrating or frustration build.


#10

LMAO! Hababab


#11

I think the games, played in the​ top 10 in arena is decreased coz of that build right now… :smile:


#12

It surely is :grinning: very little movement!


#13

Thank you @Midlumer for sharing this information with the forum. It is nice to dispel a lot of information we have been reading. Please do not misconstrue this post as a request for a pat on the back, that is not the intention. Credit goes to @Mandelbrot for the first immortal craft I ever faced.

When a player creates a build in Dungeon Quest, each player must take into consideration the spectrum that exists between damage and survivability, while fully understanding there are 42 affixes you can control to accomplish your design/goal (48 affixes with the trophy). Our current builds are just one of the numerous outcomes when you look at this spectrum and consider the trade space between damage and survivability.

There were a large amount of resources and time invested to create the theory, test, and place them into the arena. These builds can be improved significantly but I am not certain if we will take them any further.

When the arena was first released, I personally recall builds that could kill you before you could even move 5yds and you could not get away from the impending death. There have been times when an opponent only had to get fire on you with a little bleed and you would be dead in a few seconds. When Cerebral Vortex was introduced, everyone wanted to grab their torches and pitchforks.

As of 3.0, the arena has evolved into a much improved and better environment since it’s inception. The developer continues to introduce new sets, new affixes and fix issues/bugs that occur. I believe the current arena is highly improved since it was released approximately 1.75 years ago. I give many thanks to the developer for listening to ‘every’ players request, continuously updating DQ and for keeping the arena fresh. Each player and tester have helped to work with the developer to shape the current Dungeon Quest into what it is today. Without continued feedback, suggestions and creativity the arena would be very flat/dull.

Keep in mind there are 42 affixes you can control for your character. That means there are so many possible combinations for many types of builds that fit into the damage and survivability spectrum. There are approximately 140 epic affixes, 20 cyan affixes (only six allowable on your gears), approximately 80 legend affixes, 34 mythics, approximately 60 sets and 20 mythstones.

A specific nerf request has been submitted for this specific type of build but @Midlumer is correct that we are already working on the next theory craft.


#14

Second that!


#15

Third that!


#16

Just answering @DeathGG bro for his comment.


#17

Funny how cheater reacted once scooty and JWS Mandlebrot made the build…The fact that this build is to annoy evryone… And Annoys Non legit players… a huge Facepalm to them


#18

Lol.


#19

For me it should be kept not nerfed… hence it should not leaked … few people knew this builds and those few wont abused it… thtnaks for that…

Pros:
The build kept the balance in arena since some player learned how to exploit the game either getting perfect pets and trophies …this build is inevitable can be tweaked for more potential use…

It prolongs Non legit Players to hike Div 1 and wonders how to prevent the frustrating build

It allows other player to adjust and tweak hence immortal build are Living dummies in arena compare to the regular Practice Dummy…
Yet Very dangerous Dummy

@Mr_Scooty
@Midlumer
I rather contest Nerfing this build… this build serve as aiming a A full damage Ai.

Cons:
If you are a legit player who knows how affixes and talent works you can kill it. If you only cheat and mixed affix and dont understand a thing then this build stays as Immortal to you


#20

Good point there