Ignore Resist vs. Weaken & Effective Guide by Mid (as of Patch 2.5)


#21

What are you talking about? Watch vid below. The monster has Greatly Resist Ice.


#22

Cool video :smile: . Thanks. Also how did you record this. Was this Google play recording or AZ screen recorder. I wonder how you get profile pic on that bubble. I get my face but not my profile pic. I can easily cover up bubble though with the games icon.


#23

I used youtube gaming. You just need to disable the camera and it will allow you to put a profile pic.


#24

i wonder. if i have effective and i prioritize plagued set affix, changing my poison damage to something else, would the elemental crit still be poison cloud? or is it still poison cloud with a different element? or would plagued set be still affecting my damage?


#25

Effective changes your element during DMG calculations only. Your Poison weapon will still do Poison Cloud as Ele Crit but it will do Ice DMG to Fire monsters.


#26

Once I find time, I will answer to this. Currently very busy with work/private life… So when I have ~2h or so I’ll probably make a video too.


#27

Hi @Clogon, @Midlumer, or anybody -

Do we have “rank” of importance for getting: Ignore Resist, Weaken (by at least ???%), Effective?

So puzzled on which to have :disappointed_relieved:


#28

There is no Rank. Each of them provides something different.

Weaken can provide bonus DMG if you stack enough.
Ignore Resist makes you deal the same damage regardless of the Monster’s resist.
Effective is basically 1.25x DMG assuming the monsters don’t resist their own weakness.

It all depends on your build and whatever you are farming.


#29

Okay once again, Effective does not work with Ignore Resist and is not an 25% increase in damage :yum: watch the video below:

I finally found time to make the video :wink:


#30

On Wizard, if I have say prismatic/ascended/elements or any element changer while effective mythic is equipped. will Amplify talent be useless? since the only debuff that would work is the effective element against mobs


#31
  1. You are comparing a Poison Monster that Greatly resists Poison while using Poison Attack. Then using an attack that it does not resist. Of course the DMG will be greater than 1.25x. You are bypassing all that reduction by changing your element. <.< That means you deal 12.5% then changing to something that deals 125% so, naturally, you will see a 10x damage difference…

  2. You are using a DOT to compare DMGs while pausing in between to change items. I am not 100% on how DOT mechanics work in PVE but I do know that switching equipent can while effects are going on can cause a lot of bugs.

As you can see in my video, effective + ignore resist is 1.25x your NORMAL attack DMG. I will have to look into the DoT mechanics when I get a chance.

Edit:
Didn’t realise I posted before I compiled everything. :confused:

Edit2: Sorry, I forgot to say thank you very much for the Vid! I know you are a busy guy and it will greatly help the devs find out what goes wrong to DoT’s when you change equipents.


#32

You are welcome :slight_smile: here my 2nd video:

The last sentence of course references my first post, it’s not in the video. Of course if you attack with your normal attack (and the monster has no resistance against your normal attack) and put on Effective (and the monster has no resistance against it’s usual weakness) you get an increase of 25% in damage (I sincerely believe that the monster has -25% resistance in that case).
But in all other cases, you get varying damage values, depending on the monster’s resistance.

The only bug related thing to changing equipment I witnessed there is that DoT stops if you put on Ignore Resist. But just to be sure, I compiled 10 damage values without changing any equipment during the process (just once to take off the Effective Ring between the two runs):

As you can see, there is virtually no difference; Ignore Resist cancels the effect on damage of Effective, since the monster’s resistances are being ignored.

Edit:

In your video you have Druidic and HP Regen. Isn’t Ice also a DoT in a way? Because then you increase your damage with Druidic :neutral_face: (Strength and Intelligence would then also add damage, if you have points in those).


#33

Sorry m8, I overread you earlier :slight_smile: well Amplify increases damage for each DoT on enemy, so since Effective only changes the element on damage calculation but not the type of DoT (enemies are still poisoned, slowed etc.) it should increase the damage the same way it does without Effective.


#34

You are using DoT mechanics to test this right? As I stated, they work differently than Normal Attacks. So the bug is probably with DoT’s. You can see in my vid that Effective + Ignore Resist against a Fire Monster that has Greatly Resist Ice provided 125% DMG.

Ice Debuff deals no Damage over time. Only Poison and Fire do. Druidic only affects Poison DoT. The DMG in my vid is strictly from Charge.

Edit:
I chose Ice Element DoT since it is the only element that has neither damage nor damage amplification effects.


#35

Yes I did. But since you still don’t believe me, let’s do this right. Next video without sound, not alone here :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: okay the I did the following:

  • Change element to Arcane,
  • ignore all critical attacks,
  • 31 attacks with Ignore Resist - without Effective,
  • 32 attacks with Ignore Resist - with Effective.

Calculating the averages:

No difference at all.

I know that you don’t like to be wrong, but you are :slight_smile: Ignore Resist cancels out Effective. Noticeable as well because of the missing “Effective” word, it doesn’t appear (in your video neither).


#36

I don’t mind being wrong. Your results show something different from mine as seen in my vid. I clearly still do 1.25x my damage with ignore resist and effective in that vid. I’ll have to look into this in more detail. Thank you very much for your thorough investigation!


#37

Thank you! I really like your attitude, it is very nice to discuss with somebody who is actually interested in the details and does not wave his hand, leaving a one-liner saying “it’s like this” without testing or explaining.

I did watch your video a lot of times and I couldn’t find any damage modification that pushes the damage above the shown values. But then again, it is really easy to miss some damage modification in DQ… That is also the reason why I stripped my char completely for the tests.

I’m still convinced the damage increase in your video must be from something else since the word “Effective” does not appear on screen and my tests are congruent with Effective not working with Ignore Resist.

Maybe you could consider for further tests:

  • Switch damage to Arcane to have no elemental effect on the monster,
  • have a switch-out for your Effective Ring, and compare directly Effective/no Effective,
  • compare the average damage values, not the maximum damage.

Your tests rely on the assumption that the screen damage on your Stats page is also the damage you deal. What happens if you take off Effective, does the damage stay in range of the Stats page or does it go above also? Maybe try with a clean ring, and one with only Effective on it to be sure.

PS: Of course you are correct, Druidic should only affect Poison DoT :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


#38

I like how you went and emptied all affixes to test. As you inspected, I have nothing to boost my DMG. The reason why I have so many defensive affixes is to survive that map as all monsters have +2 Enemy Affix to help find monsters that resist its own weakness.

The Power Stat is the very accurate. The only things that it doesn’t include are effects that depend on the enemy or dynamically changes like Equality, Mythics, and Adventure.

Also being wrong is part of the learning process. Thomas Edison was wrong 10 000 times before he got the light bulb right. I am human, I make mistakes and I learn. Learning makes me happy so I accept the mistakes will always that come from it.

Again, thank you very much for bringing this issue up! I noted this down and will come back to it when I get a chance.


#39

I’ve included this in SHTT, if that’s all right with you, @Midlumer.


#40

Sure, I’m pleased to hear that it’s that useful :slight_smile: