Battle Arena - Balancing


#1

After playing for 3 years on and off and still being a Live Gameplay myself for a MOBA before being inducted into the Army, I just want to give some insights on the current Battle Arena as well as will try to point out all salient issues that needs to be addressed or assessed, which ever comes may be.
Battle Arena is a pretty good alternative when you are tired of grinding against mobs and, in my opinion, gives better Legend and Eternal rewards (if opened in highest floor reached Legend Maps)but issues here and there do exist.
To note: There are 3 builds viable in the Arena;
Glasscannon(Low Endurance, High Damage Output, Mid Crowd Control)
Tanks(High Endurance, Mid to Low Damage Depending of build, Low Crowd Control)
Controllers(Mid Endurance, Mid Damage, High Crowd Control)
Our First Issue is Tankiness:
Being tanky is OK especially for 2v2 for builds that needs to be tanky enough to deal with 2 opponents at once but when made deliberately so that they can outlast others in the arena while also dishing out damage is a frustrating experience. The Set responsible for such a stat spike is Faun’s Gifts that scales HP and Resistances through Luck on gear. With a Crystal Affix Luck that caps at 225% plus the Epiphany set and throw in some flat HP epic affix, this is one of the highest HP value spikes I’ve ever seen. To make things worse, Crushing Blow is currently anchored/ effective only to PvE which gives those with Glasscannons and Controller builds no choice but to deal consistent damage and/or proc more forms of CC(Crowd Control). This is the most effective build path because simply, they do not have inherent weakness.
Next stop, Damage Mitigation
Forms of Damage Mitigation is welcome but if the character mitigates damage more than what is fair/necessary is too frustrating. Ever seen a Tank with 300k HP mitigates 800k to 1M Damage? That is 2-3x more than the character’s HP. The biggest one that mitigates damage is Block affix, to note, it has higher cap than Dodge(45 vs 30). And yes, it only can be affixed on an OH Weapon using Obsidian but still, Crystal Legends with Block chance can drop making Tanks Block chance insanely higher. Currently, dealing with Tanks is extremely limited making them the niche build as the saying goes: "If you cannot beat them, join them. May as well mention “Di Immortales” build.
How can this be addressed?
Tankiness in this game is a gamebreaking issue because it forces players to go the same making other builds unwelcome to the mix. I believe that each build should have its own inherent weakness so that a build is not strong against every other build. The direct approach, in my opinion, is to nerf Faun’s Gift’s effectiveness. It’s spike is mainly anchored to the Crystal Affix Luck% which heavily multiplies all flat HP percentages. However, there are other affixes that gives bonus HP but the most balanced would be is the Vampiric Touch which, in lieu of additional HP and % healing through max health by bleeding, it removes HP regen.
Additionally, the Damage Mitigation through Block chance should be nerfed. Currently, there is a limitation on which piece of gear can a Crystal Affix Block(OH Weapon) can be placed but unfortunately, Crystal Legends of any piece of gear can drop and possess the Block chance crystal affix. The quick solution to this is to nerf Block chance to 40% or down until 30% to go along with Dodge affix. Block, unfortunately, synergizes with Shieldwall + Reflect Damage + Cerebral Vortex, can kill anyone without even getting in range to deal damage.
Indirect Approach is to introduce a new Set made specifically against Tanks in the arena. Crushing Blow is severely ineffective against other players. Let’s call the set “Giant Slayer”. Dealing damage against players or monsters which has higher HP than you causes them to take additional % damage based on their max health over 2 seconds up to a cap of 10% of their max health.
Favorable values would be, deal 0.5% per rank of enemies’ max health per 15000 health difference in over 2 seconds.
Now, why 0.5% per rank if it has a cap of 10%? This cap can be raised by Epiphany as of any stat. It also forces a build to be extremely squishy to be able to gain the full advantage of the set.
Furthermore, the 2 seconds allows the set to not be extremely overpowered and would allow Tanks to mitigate damage by regeneration.
To test this, you are a Glasscannon build with 1 HP vs 100k Tank build. Without raising the stat cap, you deal 10% of the Tank’s max HP, 10k over 2 seconds which you deal 5k per second. Consistent Damage dealers will refresh this set effect.
Second Issue, Crowd Control
Crowd Control(CC) offers a bit of protection for those with Glasscannon and Controller for build as well as providing meaningful and interesting interaction for some skills. Most forms of CC are achieved through casting OH skills or Legend Affix procs. The problem with CC is: the Character can be able to stack several forms of CC in less than a second. To add to that mix, CCs in the form of Elemental Critical(Freeze for Ice, Stun for Shock and Immolate for Fire which, as I always observe, has Knockback on proc). While it provides strategy and a bit of protection, being able to proc several times within a short period of time is very cumbersome to deal with. To note, the Rogue with Vault(Causes Blind) + Taunt. The skill Dispel doesn’t help as much unless you have decent Cleanse or Purge stat.
How can this be addressed?
In many ways, Crowd Control is important as a mean of a possible way to make hits land or a form of protection against those with dealing consistent damage. As observed, different forms of CC are more effective than one form of CC. Placing a bit of “respite” in between different kinds of CCs makes for a breathing room to apply your own CC to your enemy. This can be achieved by placing a bit longer special cooldowns to all CCs in the Battle Arena and reducing all their duration, which should go the same to Trophies. Alternatively, as stated, Dispel is ineffective as it will only remove the current persistent CC/s and will not prevent any incoming more within a few seconds. Adding an effect that we can call “Respite” allows a player to be Immune to all CCs within 1 second allows for them to properly penetrate a CC storm that Caster/Hitter Campers are notorious for.
Overall, in the long run, the Battle Arena should have its own special stat scaling without having to introduce new elements. As a former Live Gameplay myself to a MOBA with more than one type of Game Mode, this will be very cumbersome indeed as several game modes needs different considerations but it will better reward players who dares to go out of the status quo and show that being different is not as punishing as it should be.
The most balanced build in my opinion?
Glasscannons. With clear strength and weakness.
So that’s it and welcome to my first thread ever created. Bored, do not have plans with this long rest and can’t go anywhere so may as well create one with my thoughts on it. Feel free to criticize or agree to disagree.


#2

There are caps on arena for dodge and block, both cap at 24%. What you noticed about too much damage mitigation is just dodge, most come from “scoundrel” set affix (15% I think + 10% base). Block costs too much to reach cap, max block value on an item is 11%, which means you need 2 items to reach near cap. Reflect damage isn’t even a point, its damage is pretty low if you have mid-low damage [look at flasher’s build on arena, it has manashield and upon deadly strike deals about 8k on squishy builds, but his build is a pure glasscannon]. CV also isn’t a great point, on current patch, cause it already got a big nerf, which just lets you evade it pretty easy.

About CC, I would never thought about a more balanced form than DQ has: Each time you apply a CC effect, the next time you apply, its duration will be halved. This limits how much time you can be CC’ed, e.g., the max time you will stay stunned is 2 + 1 + 0.5 + 0.25 + … (at some point you become “immune”). Even if you can apply multiple CCs (stun + frozen + blind would be pretty deadly), it actually has a cost (using “element” sets, different elements on your items, which means ED+ will be less effective, and others). To worse CC situation, currently, you can reduce their duration by using their respective resistances (stun resist, frozen resist, etc.) and via “flawless victory” trophy.

I fully agree about tanks, they’re safest type of build atm, you can just beat any glasscannon, tank or “controllers” using such type of build. I always recommend new players a Battle Mage build to raise on arena, cause it has virtually no counter if built and played properly. I think some sets really need a rework: Battle Mage, Plagued and Faun’s Gift. These not only give high HP values, but also gives high armor and all resist multiplicators, which to me is somewhat unfair. Also, Alchemy Mythic and how it works right now, allow tank builds have high hp values and also high DMG Reduction% values.

Buff Crushing Blow on PVP? Maybe?


#3

Ive recently got back in the arena and noticed some pretty strong builds even in div 7 eternal league. Ive actually learned quite a few from this thread. Lmao thanks.


#4

Well if you are the player against the bot it is pretty easy unless the bot would cast a very opportunistic root while your Dispel is on cooldown. I just tested Spell Sword/Satyr’s Spirit on a Manashield build, also a bit strong but not as strong as Battle Mage on Faun’s Gifts. Scoundrel is rarely seen in Eternal League because off all I have encountered so far uses Charge as their Primary MH with an Enigma Mythic on their OH which makes them close the distance far too easy. Yes Alchemy is one very, very effective Mythic. I have an Immortal Luck build which I currently use to tank against hordes of enemies in PVE and testing Fury and Equivalence beforehand but hell… Alchemy is too persistent, maxing HP/MP in a matter of seconds again and again without picking up some orbs on the ground. :expressionless:


#5

still plodding up the mythic divisions :frowning: zzzz


#6

Battle Mage gets priority on skills, but both effects applies. I’m not sure, but about skills priority it is: Battle Mage > Scoundrel > Spell Sword.

I was talking about reflect damage…

It wasn’t my point about alchemy. I don’t blame you, you look less experienced and I know many experienced players which doesn’t know it too… Good times trying to figure out.


#7

Battlemage rocks.


#8

Maybe… Experienced maybe not… But having multiple MH modifying affixes doesn’t seem to conflict though but haven’t tested anything with all of them in one set-up. Actually Manashield is dealing Reflect Damage in OH, unlike Reflect Damage Legend affix which deals MH.


#9

Need to nerf DOT damages because most players relying on DOT bleed immolate toxic without even challenge to increase there base or initial damage. Perseverance is not available to most players because its expensive to make lots of Ruby’s to be wasted and ruins built. Only the riches can afford it Example champion warior relied on bleed crushing flames wizard relied on immolation DoT is much higher than initial damage poison dot is much mo balance equat ti initial damage of its dot. Other example a warior 700 damage toss but the bleed is 5k crit 11k deadly? Whats that coward build no playing skills at all when online and no strategy on setting AI while offline


#10

Wow, calm down. I think you’re quite new to say that perseverance is “expensive”. Just play more, at some points rubies will be like sand in the desert.
If you think properly, perseverance is much more coward, cause it nullify an entire DOT build with just 3 affixes.


#11

Perseverance is the Nerf for DoT’s. people who are tired of losing to OP DoT builds use it. but not every one will use it, as that is 3 spaces just to Nullify DoT’s. and only DoT’s! that is 3 spaces that isn’t being used for attack, defense, or healing. and 3 spaces is a big thing in PVP. a good farming build can give anyone the Riches of Many Ruby’s. or anyone who get’s lots of Dust to buy cheap Eternal Items in the Codex to convert them into Ultra Rare Crystals. @goodlike10, don’t let Perseverance be a wall you can’t climb. make a PVP build that laughs at Perseverance as you climb your way to Eternal League, Division 1, Rank 1.


#12

My tip is speed run legend 200 plus with all your luck and gold find gear and change items into dust @Golem and then buy a cheap eternal into a crystal. Works for me


#13

@dickwad, I was answering goodlike10’s concerns with DoT in the Arena versus Perseverance, and hoping to give some advice that will turn Frustration into Victory. 4 :arrow_up:. but that is a good idea, thanks.
on another note, I was looking to get Throw Sword Proc and another Frostbiting on my gears. I spent about 25 Ruby’s to get what I wanted. along the way, I actually had 2 Perseverance on my gears, at the same time, for a moment, and I really thought about keeping them, but I had to give them up for what I wanted.


#14

Perseverance with immortal build :wink: . High damage reduction over 3x perseverance. Well 2x with high damage reduction more than enough but you can generate enough damage to beat it.


#15

3 slots isn’t that bad compared to a DOT build which uses 42 slots, lol


#16

DOT dmg is usually higher than normal dmg, so if dmg is already high, DOT damage can become so monstrous that may scare even an alchemy build


#17

Can you please clarify the point at which “rubies will be like sand in the desert”?
I’m at floor 320 mythic 3 difficulty with 1050% luck, 184% item drop, and rank 6 to crystalline set…really worried over my crystal yield.


#18

Needs to cap the DoT damages. Because of relying on its you need just one weak projectile to eliminated you’re target


#19

With this you are at least dropping many legends. Dust them all and start buying cheap eternals then convert them. For pure dropping, I recommend maxing your item drop, using eternalized set for more crystal/eternal item, getting fortunate perk and going around floor 500+. It’s more about finding/converting crystal/eternals items than dropping rubies.


#20

yes its easy to have crystals by converting eternal items. . than hunting crystal drop.