IGNORE Resist or Weaken?

Are they stack ??? Used both or one is enough ??

Just one of them should be enough :smile:

Correct me if I am wrong sir but is weaken useless against element immune enemies???

Yes they do. Weaken adds damage on top of Ignore Resist so it’s not possible to take both. (Btw, Ignore Resist works only in PVE)

@Onaneehsyu Nope. You could atleast damage them when it triggers (WEAKEN right?) it helps atleast taking % of enemies defense to make your attacks effective.

So:

  • weaken --> PvE and PvP, %chance for -50% enemy res (correct?)
  • ignore res --> only PvE, means always 0 enemy res (right?)
  • ignore res + weaken --> weaken is wasted, unless you use the same character for both PvE and PvP?

What about the “effective” mythic?
(on dmg, changes element to the enemy’s usual weakness)

  • how much % is such weakness?
  • “usual” means that it could be wrong for special monsters or players?
  • it seems useful with weaken, but wasted with ignore res…
  1. read the description/dictionary.

  2. again read the description/dictionary.

  3. clarify this question. I have no idea what you are saying.

  4. 25% more damage

  5. read the dictionary, fire <-> water, shock <-> poison

  6. read the dictionary, elemental resistance does not affect elemental affiliation.

I already checked the descriptions in the game, but they’re often short and without many formulas.

  1. it’s useless to have both ignore resistance and weaken, because the latter is wasted (0 * 50%), right?

  2. I don’t understand your answer. I know that those elements are opposite, but my question is about that “usual” word: what does it imply? (also for specials monsters and players)

  3. uh… what does that mean? O_o
    Where is that explained exactly?

  1. How does the below imply that there is a chance for -50% resist? It tells you that it straight up reduces an enemy’s resist.


  2. It is wasted because “Ignore Resist” ignores a monter’s resistance. It does not matter what its resistance is. It is completely “ignored”.

  1. Did you read every entry?


  1. Exactly what it means. A monster’s elemental resistance does not affect its element. A monster can resist Ice Damage and reduce it by 75% despite being a Fire monster if it has the “Greatly Resists Ice” Enemy affix.

Edit:
I will get “monster resist” renamed to hammer down the fact that “monster resist” and “player resist” are different mechanics. It is something I wanted to do for 2.3 but could not think of a good name till recently. I also just noticed that the Enemy “Immune” affix is missing.

Edit2:
When you fight a monster, it will tell you what said monster is resistant to at the top of the screen:

Edit3:
Here is a monster that is resistant to many elements:

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Thank you for the screenshots.

  1. & 3) ok

  2. so the mythic “effective” will deal fire\shock damage for that epic monster resistant to poison,arcane,ice in the example, right?
    For players, will it choose their lowest resistance or what?

  3. Ok… but what has this to do with the question?
    Is “effective” useful with the affix “weaken” and\or with “ignore resist”, or not? O_o

[quote=“phaolo, post:10, topic:10976, full:true”]5) so the mythic “effective” will deal fire\shock damage for that epic monster resistant to poison,arcane,ice in the example, right?
For players, will it choose their lowest resistance or what?

  1. Ok… but what has this to do with the question?
    Is “effective” useful with the affix “weaken” and\or with “ignore resist”, or not? O_o
    [/quote]

What do you not understand from the below?

[quote=“Clogon, post:9, topic:10976, full:true”]5) Did you read every entry?


  1. Exactly what it means. A monster’s elemental resistance does not affect its element. A monster can resist Ice Damage and reduce it by 75% despite being a Fire monster if it has the “Greatly Resists Ice” Enemy affix.

Edit:
I will get “monster resist” renamed to hammer down the fact that “monster resist” and “player resist” are different mechanics. It is something I wanted to do for 2.3 but could not think of a good name till recently. I also just noticed that the Enemy “Immune” affix is missing.

Edit2:
When you fight a monster, it will tell you what said monster is resistant to at the top of the screen:

Edit3:
Here is a monster that is resistant to many elements:


[/quote]

[size=30]RESIST HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH MONSTER ELEMENT!!![/size]

Again read the screen shots I posted. Heck I will paraphrase it for you:

  1. Fire enemies are weak vs Ice
  2. Ice enemies are weak vs Fire
  3. Poison enemies are weak vs Shock
  4. Shock enemies are weak vs Poison

These 4 points answers all of your questions about Effective.

Why don’t you just answer the questions directly, instead of adding other info? :confused:
I don’t understand your replies.
However, I don’t want to stress you further, so can someone else please explain?

Sorry I was a bit irritated.

You can see from the lightning coming out of that Slime that it is a Shock monster. Effective will therefore change your attack to Poison. Why? Because Shock monsters are weak vs Poison. Does it matter that it “Greatly resists Poison” ? No, it is a Shock monster therefore it is weak vs Poison.

Are players Shock enemies? No. Are players Poison enemies? No. Are players Fire enemies? No. Are players Ice enemies? No. They are none of the above so Effective will do nothing.

Edit:
What do you not understand? Please answer as I will try to explain it in a different way.

“Does it matter that it “Greatly resists Poison” ? No, it is a Shock monster therefore it is weak vs Poison.”
What? Such behaviour is quite confusing then O_o
Wouldn’t it better if monsters weak to an element couldn’t spawn with contradictory affixes?

Or do you mean that the weakness formula is different from the resistance formula?
You see, I’m confused because in Diablo1&2 weakness meant less resistance to a damage type (even negative).

How is the calculation in DungeonQuest, instead?
E.g:
1- player hits a monster for X dmg
2- dmg is reduced by moster resistance
3- dmg is increased by weakness?

this below is the previous edit.
I’ve left it here, because I’m still confused after re-reading your post.


So, my question in my first post was:
“usual” means that it could be wrong for special monsters or players?

And from your last post I understand that the answer is:

  • special monsters -> yes, it could deal a damage type to which the special monster is resistant\immune.
  • players -> “effective” doesn’t work on players. (useful to know!)

–

For the question:
Is “effective” useful with the affix “weaken” and\or with “ignore resist”, or not?

I’m still not sure.
Is the default monster weakness damage calculated after the… resistance damage calculation?
If it is, then E+W or E+IR could be useful, otherwise… probably not.

What are special monsters? How did they come into the picture? Stop complicating things and look at each effect individually.

If a monster is Shock type, their weakness is Poison. This fact never changes and is the “usual” weakness. If you attack a Shock monster with Poison, you will deal more damage. [Size=24]If you have Effective, any attack against a Shock monster will become Poison.[/size]

A monster that is Immune to Poison will take 0 Damage from Poison attacks. [Size=24]If you attack Poison Immune monster with poison, you will do 0 DMG.[/size]

Now lets put the bolded points together:
[Size=24]If you have Effective, any attack against a Shock monster will become Poison. If you attack Poison Immune monster with poison, you will do 0 DMG.[/size]

What happens if you attack a Shock Monster with effective?
Your attack changes to Poison.

What happens when you attack a monster that is “Immune to Poison” with a Poison Attack?
You do 0 damage.

What happens when you have Effective and attack a Shock monster that is “Immune to Poison”?

Your attack changes to Poison and you do 0 DMG.





Effective, Ignore Resist and Weaken have nothing to do with each other and are completely unrelated. Each of them have different effects and they will all apply their effects.

  1. Effective will change your Attack element depending on the Element of the enemy.

  2. Weaken will reduce Resist.

  3. Ignore Resist will ignore Resist.

They have nothing in common.

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I have understood your example, but that leaves out what I need.
(also, adding more mess, I edited my previous post while you were writing :persevere: )

Can you answer directly to these similar examples, please?


  1. If I:
  • don’t have special affixes on my gear
  • attack a Shock monster without resistances for X poison dmg
    What will be the final damage?
    ( X * weakness_bonus ) …or what?

Other combinations:

  • no affixes on my gear
  • Shock monster without resistances for X fire dmg (or ice)
    X …or what?
  • no affixes on my gear
  • Shock monster without resistances for X shock dmg
    ( X * weakness_penalty ) …or what?

  1. If I:
  • have effective and weaken 50%
  • attack a Shock monster for X dmg (so my dmg will become poison)
  • the monster is Greatly Resistant to Poison (75% resistance?)
    What will be the final damage?
    X * weakness_bonus * (100%-(75%-50%)) …or what?

Other combinations:

  • effective and weaken 50%
  • X dmg to a Shock monster Immune to Poison (100%)
    X * weakness_bonus * (100%-(100%-50%)) …or what?
  • effective and ignore resist
  • X dmg to a Shock monster Greatly Resistant to Poison (75%?)
    X * weakness_bonus * (100%-0) …or what?
  • effective and ignore resist
  • X dmg to a Shock monster Immune to Poison (100%)
    X * weakness_bonus * (100%-0) …or what?
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Hello?
Anyone? :confused:

Effective typically means you are doing damage against that enemy with a damage type it is weak against.

So if you attack a shock monster with poison it will be weak to that poison…the attack will be “effective”. The total damage done relies on other variables as well.

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@phaolo
Effective =changing attack element into enemy usual weakness “DURING DAMAGE CALCULATION”

means dmg dealt =
=poison <->shock
=Fire <-> ice
and effective effect only During dmg calculation :laughing::laughing: hope you got it

Thank you.
Can you please also check the examples at post 15 and answer them?
(I’m only considering weakness & resistance and ignoring other things like armor,level,etc)