Hi!! <3
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Defense depends on the floor. lower floors HP, Armor, All Resist, Manashield, and Damage Reduction do great. on higher floors Dodge, Block, Miss Chance, and Sanctuary Mythic are king. Movement, Crowd Control, Kill Enemies First work on any floor.
good to see you again @TeaCup !
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I mean wouldn’t block and dodge and such be good on low floors as well? And you mentioned I think 100% block warrior and 100% stealth rogue?
Would 100% block mean that you’re unkillable baring maybe thorns?
sure, you could use Dodge & Block on lower floors, but without Crystal affixes, they take up lots of space.
100% Block has a max of +84%ish Block from Epiphany Set (7 or 8) and enough Bulwark Talent to reach 100% for 5 seconds when you Block an attack. so not unkillable. best to have Sanctuary Mythic for insurance with this build.
Permastealth for Rogue has 100% Dodge, but you have to keep tapping Stealth when the Cooldown is done. if your timing is wrong, dead. Sanctuary Mythic is a must also for insurance.
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Oh okay. So like near unkillable if you play properly and have sanctuary, but can still die?
I lucked out just now on a crystal hammer with 30%+ block actually as the crystal affix. And used a socket to get 25% less resource costs, socketed in the hammer.
Unfortunately not a set item at all. But since I do not have Nadroji, nor the mythstones for + set, it doesn’t matter right now.
Also how does damage reduction work? Like if you have 40% from one source, and 40% from another, is that 80% damage reduction or does it not add like that? Just thinking because the shield skill gives 80% on its own, and if you were to have proc stats for that skill, to ensure almost 100% uptime, and then some minor damage reduction from other sources. Wouldn’t you get 100%? Or is it capped? That + block chance would be really good no?
Edit: Also yeah you’d need 8 epiphany to go from 60% cap to 100% cap. Which is I believe 4 epiphany items on you, leaving only 2 other sets out of your 6 equipment. I guess technically a 90% block and Sanctuary could be considered enough. Which is what you’d get with 6 epiphany instead of 8, which is 2 items with it and +4 to all sets right? Leaving 4 other set options for the other 4 equipments. If you also roll dodge% up as high as possible. The 10% chance of not blocking would in most cases be covered by a dodge, and when it isn’t, sanctuary would step in.
Can you get crystal block : dodge, on all pieces? Or only specific ones? Because if I got 30% block from one crystal affix, I’d only need 3 block ones and be capped at 90%. And could have 3 dodge ones as well if it can roll into crystal too.
And how do I see the nature of MH and OH? Their skills are were the nature effect usually shows I think?
all Damage Reduction is multiplied with each other. so unless there is a 100% Damage Reduction somewhere (outside of Permastealth) you will still get 1 hit killed eventually.
I think you can get 100% Damage Reduction on lower floors with Armor and/or All Resist, but the formula for them uses floor level so gets worse as you go higher floors.
Crytal Dodge on all 6 Items, Block on OH, others yes from Warrior Items except for Necklace.
MH & OH no Natures, they have Weapon Skills instead.
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Ahh okay. That makes sense. You said block in OH, but I got my MH with block? So both? Or a typo? A little confusing there.
Anyways, I tried with my almost 60% block warrior to push towards 200 again and I can actually survive on 170 m3 now, I switched my aftermath staff on wizard to Zeus Reactor, using 20% meteor proc (on two aftermath equipment) and Orb Reactor to proc it now which gives me a bit more range and still decent damage. Also helps that my staff was 15k damage and my Zeus sword is 75k, so damage ends up at about the same somehow despite less meteors.
And warrior is set to hireling with only first hammer skill and second shield skill on use as frequently as possible. So it just runs around and taunts things as I throw orbs and meteors into them. Still die a few times (1-2 times) when it comes to some epic and above enemies having their aoe but it works better now.
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OH is the only Item you can get Crystal Block with Obsidian. a few MH, and one each of Chest, Head, and Ring have Block on them, and have a chance to be Crystal… and they are Warrior Items. there are a lot of Warrior OH with Block, and you can roll Normal, Epic, and Crystal Block on any Classes OH.
and as Teacup mentioned, equipping Shield on a Warrior gives a +10% Block that’s counted towards the cap.
here’s something to think about,… having +60% Block with +60% Dodge means enemies only have a 16% chance to hit you.
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So if I by that logic had 80% block and 80% dodge, or even 90% of each, it would be an even smaller chance?
What is checked for first? Block or dodge? Not that it matters but one needs to be checked and failed in order for the other one to be checked. Unless they’re checked simultaneously and as long as one of them succeeds the check the damage is negated. Still if both succeeds one has to have priority.
Anyways, goal at the moment is farming for set effects, get epiphany, stack block and dodge as high as possibly. Get sanctuary. And have it be a moving meat shield.
Epiphany (8) would get Dodge & Block caps up to +84% each. that would be a +2.56% chance of getting hit if you had both.
I think Dodge would be checked first because every Character starts with +10% Dodge free. next I think whichever is higher is checked first, a Warrior with +60% Block & +20% Dodge.
it’s also possible that as Wizard was the first Class and had Dodge, and when Warrior was introduced with Block, Dodge is always checked first and Block second.
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Don’t think the math maths. If I remember correctly epiphany says +5% cap per set rank, so 8 epiphany should be 40%+ cap, and base cap is 60. Unless there is some other factor in the calculation??
Edit: then the question also needs to be asked, is this an enforced % or completely random. Because if it’s enforced then 60% dodge or block means 4/10 hits WILL hit, guaranteed, compared to random probability which will depend on luck, and you could get hit 1000 times in a row if really unlucky.
Epiphany means the cap is multiplied by 1 + (0.05 * set value), so x1.4 for Epiphany (8). In other words, the cap increases by 40% of 60%, a.k.a. 24%
And dodge/block is random
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Ahh okay, in game descriptions should be clearer then. But in that case you can never actually reach 100% as a cap? Non the less if you cap both at 84% you have a miniscule chance of being hit. And Sanctuary mythic would remedy that.
Having 100% dodge would be busted lmao. And yes, that’s why you run Sanctuary and/or Smokebomb
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Well never said it wouldn’t be busted on its own, however they could have had an affix for powerful enemies that had a chance to pierce block and dodge, like let’s say precision vs dodge and well, pierce vs block? At that point 100% dodge would for example be calculated against enemy precision, and thus decide the actual chance etc, it would just be 100% against enemies without those stats.
there are affixes against Dodge & Block on Trinkets for PVP to reduce their effectiveness.
so it would be player vs player for those effects…
with +50% Dodge and Cloak you can get 100% Dodge for as long as Cloak is active.
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Well I was thinking for PvE having those affixes. Because like, let’s me real. 100% dodge or block is broken even in PvE.
Also, would applied buffs ignore cap and surpass it then? Like if cap only gets to 84% or whatever, and you have the cloak give 50%, would that then just ignore that dodge can’t go above 84%? And is that how you’d then get 100% block as well? An outside buff that ignores cap?
Edit: Because I was thinking, can’t you just replace skill 2 in offhand with Cloak somehow, of shield, have shield wall on a proc instead as an affix, and then have a 100% dodge, 100% block warrior?
Skills go over cap, but why would you want both 100% dodge and block. And permastealth is a build, a Rogue build
they aren’t broken…
Permastealth for Rogues is 100% Dodge (at least +50% Dodge on Build) when Cloak is active. that moment between Cloaks Cooldown ending and you hitting Cloak again to start the Cooldown is when you are vulnerable.
100% Block for Warriors requires the Warrior to Block an attack with +84% Block to get the extra Block for 100% for 5 seconds with Bulwark Talent. if there are no attacks to Block for 5 seconds, the Warrior goes back to 84% again until he Blocks the next attack.
both builds take a lot of space, not to mention adding Sanctuary for those few times luck goes the enemies way. and if the Rogue adds some Block, the Warrior adds some Dodge, for a little more defense just in case, that’s even more space just for defense.
not only that, Rogue has a Talent that gives a chance for enemy attacks to miss when there are Illusions active, and Warrior has a Talent that gives a chance for enemy attacks to miss when they are bleeding. for all Classes, Summons, Command, Fury, and Apocalypse minions tend to get enemies to focus their attacks on them (Command has a Taunt ability that forces enemies to focus their attention).
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Well you don’t need to build damage on the one that is supposed to tank. You can have an immortal tank as your main and a glass cannon hireling (because it’s cheaper to revive hireling if they do die), and just go 100% defence based for the main tank. 100% dodge and 100% block at the same time would be good for the time window between reapplying cloak, and the block stat to go back up to 100%. So I assume if you were to for example go in with cloak first, 100% dodge, and just spam that, having 84% block will almost guarantee you never dying between cloak activations.
Not sure if it’s just overkill, but I’d like to make a truly immortal tank that could just ignore damage forever. And then I’ll be able to try out many different dps / glass cannon builds and see what I like the most in combination with the tank.
Edit:
Any free stats left over once you hit the dodge / block thresholds you want, can go straight into luck, gold find, etc I imagine, since it’s goal isn’t to kill but to survive, increasing loot gained would do more for you than trying to fix some damage on the build when there are too few stats left over to do reliable damage anyways.