Veil and dodge

Veil gives 0.5 dodge per rank if stealthed. But, stealth doubles dodge so how much dodge will i get?Also, what is talent cap in arena? (I’m trying to make a 100% dodge build for arena)

I don’t know but stealth I think reduces damage (I’m not sure and @Golem will answer this) . As damage and dodge are reduced in the arena then would you sacrifice damage ? I dont know

Any cap in arena is raised by epiphany set

the Cap for Dodge in Arena is 24 (40% of 60%). the +10% every Character has and +1.5% from each Evasion Nature isn’t reduced. so that is +19% right there.

not sure, but the Cap for Talents is 40, so in Arena I would think the Cap is 16 (40% of 40). there is that one set for extra Spiritmancer Talent Ranks, so those could go higher. if the Cap doesn’t go down for Talents, then with the +4 Talent that is on every non Weapon Item, if you had 6 Eternal items with +6 of the same Talent, you could get up to 40 for one Talent. but you would have a very awful Eternal PVP Build.

the Dodge Bonus from Veil is counted towards the Dodge Cap. so Epiphany 3 in Arena would give a Dodge Cap of 27.6%, or 28 rounded up. with Stealth, only a Dodge of 56%. Epiphany 6 is the highest you can go in Arena, so I think with Stealth, +78% Dodge is the highest you could go. using Smoke Bomb Skill & Procs can give you more chances for Dodging, but not +100% Dodge in Arena. plus, you can’t get Perma Stealth in Arena, since you can’t get Stealth & Cool Down high enough, even with Epiphany.

the description for Stealth on Items says Stealth reduces DMG 50% while active. I have been using Stealth on one of my Wizard Builds, and have been trying to see if that is true, but the Build has 4 Procs, so it is kind of hard to tell which numbers are which when trying to determine if DMG is halved.


So none the wiser :joy:

I thought that if i could overcap with bulwark,i could with veil. Why is it different?

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you are going over Cap, but Cap is lowered to 40% of 60% in Arena. Block Cap in Arena is 24%. with Epiphany 6 you get up to 29 rounded up. +3 Bulwark on all 6 items, plus the +4 Bulwark on the Ring? would give a +8 to Block for 5 seconds when you Block. so only 37% Block. a Bulwark on the Pet would get it up to 39% I think.

well, I haven’t used or tested it, but the test I did do was see if Veil Dodge Bonus was a part of Dodge Cap. I think because the bonus from Veil is constant, it doesn’t go over Cap, but the Bonus for Block from Bulwark is only for 5 seconds, and only if you Blocked an attack in the first place, so can it can go over Cap. I think that is why Dexterous Talent for rogues goes over Cap, because you have to Dodge to get the extra Crit DMG, and it is only for the next attack, not a constant bonus to Crit DMG.

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I’m not going to argue :roll_eyes:

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you are correct.

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Who is correct

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Im correct not to argue

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lol, for awhile, I was wondering about the Dodge & Block Caps when using Stealth & Bulwark, so I did a lot of thinking about how they work, especially considering what I have read in Posts by Mod’s & Dev’s.

I was also wondering about Caps for that Wizard Talent that increases Dodge +0.5% per Rank and increase MP by 10? per Rank when Dodging. the Dodge doesn’t go over Cap, because I tested it. I really wanted it to, but not happening. +70% or +80% Dodge for Wizard would have been really cool!

this was back when I started getting up to floors 300+ and needed more survival, so I did a lot of testing, reading the Forums, reading Skill & Talent descriptions, and even more testing.

then think of how Items and affixes get scaled down in Battle arena, so getting a Perma Stealth or +100% Block Build in Arena isn’t going to be easy, if they are even possible.

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@Golem your have lost me. I’m stupid.

not my intention, just explaining how I got interested in figuring out how to survive. besides, you do a really good job Crafting and helping in the Forums, so stupid you are not.

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No offence taken. I’m just rubbish at math :sunglasses: Actually I’m not rubbish I can be quite quick when under pressure ( e.g. Back in my old nursing days when calculating intra venus i drug infusion rates or currently when calculating if I’m being ripped off ). But otherwise it bores me.

so, does the veil dodge chance get doubled by stealth?
did i miss the answer?
i am wondering if i can replace 10% dodge with 20 veil in my permastealth build (10 veil + 10 all talents which i have anyway)

in my testing, the stats screen doesnt show any difference. i am at 51% dodge, and it doesnt change even if i activate stealth. if i go to 41% dodge and activate stealth, still no change on stat screen.

edit: well i just tested it and the answer is no. means u need either 40% dodge with 40 veil or 45% dodge with 20 veil to achieve 100% dodge.

edit 2: okay it actually seems like veil is completely useless when u are above dodge cap with veil? xD there’s no information in the game but it seems like even with 44% dodge and veil 20 (“should” be 98% dodge) i get hit way too often and it seems more like 88% dodge. i guess i misunderstood when golem said veil counts do dodge cap

I just looked at Veil, and the extra Dodge should get doubled by Stealth for the duration of Stealth.

some Talent, Skill, and Affix effects don’t show up on the Stat Page, but still work. did you check Dodge on the All Stats tab on the Stats Page? I think when I did my tests, Dodge from Veil didn’t take Dodge over Cap.

just so you know, Stealth can get Dodge over 100%. so if you have Dodge 60%, you would have 120% Dodge! this works well with Pathfinder Set, which causes damage and gives damage reduction a % per Rank of your Dodge %. this kind of makes up for Stealth reducing your damage by 50%.

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okay it actually seems like veil is completely useless when u are above dodge cap with veil? xD there’s no information in the game but it seems like even with 44% dodge and veil 20 (“should” be 98% dodge) i get hit way too often and it seems more like 88% dodge. i guess i misunderstood when u said veil counts to dodge cap?

this is actually the last affix i have been working on for my perfect 2 char floorclimber. guess im gonna post it sometime =)

if anyone is able to clarify this i would really appreciate it =)

yeah, if your Dodge is at 60%, Veil is only useful for extending the time for Coat Skill duration. if your Dodge is at 55%, then Veil 20 would only give you 5% more Dodge. if you have Epiphany Set at Rank 5, your Dodge Cap would be at 75%, so with Dodge 60 and Veil 20, you would have Dodge +70%.

for the Permastealth Build, you usually only need your Dodge at 50% and +84% Cooldown with Epiphany (7). Crystal Dodge +30%, Dexterity Skill at 20 for +10% Dodge with the base +10% Dodge will give you +50% Dodge. you don’t really need Veil or an Epic Dodge +10% at all.