Solved - "Hidden" Critical Damage

Community General Discussion
1

Hi guys,

as I always suspected, there is a “hidden” critical damage. I first noticed it when I was playing PvP in the stat pages, although I had nothing boosting crits my crits did higher damage than my other attacks. So I put it to the test in the video below:

Screen Shot 2017-02-17 at 16.54.29.png283×602 23.3 KB

As you can see, I do about 60% more damage when critical hits, although I have no boosts whatsoever for critical damage (you got to enlarge the image).

  • Is this intended?
  • If so, what is the actual value of this boost?
  • Is it additive with crit damage from affixes? Or multiplicative?

Best, Mid

1 Like
2

Thats weird. Critical atk should do same damage as non-critical… No. :laughing:

3

While you’re at trolling, riddle me this:

  • How long does bleed last?
  • What’s the base damage of bleed?
  • Is it additive with increase bleed damage affixes?

You clearly never tried to maximize the damage of one of your builds.

4

Oh cmon I just teased u abit no harm done. And how should I know dat, I’m a new player. But I’ll bet on:

  1. 10sec
  2. 100% dmg
  3. Ofc, whtelse u think dat affix could do

Nope.

5

looks like there’s a “base” crut damage for every char too. Same as the “base” 10% crit chance for every chars. Which are not included in the stat page as it only shows the ones you have in gears. That only makes sense, you cant have the same dmg when you crit, right? it should always be more.

6

Aight, all fine :yum: very much doubt that, bleed got nerfed in some patch… But it may be.

Sure it makes sense alright, but how much is the increase? Do I then simply add crit damage value to that base damage? The wording of the crit damage affix suggests otherwise :flushed:

Not very transparent this. Does somebody know?

7

There are a lot of mechanics occurring in the information you provided.

  1. MH weapon level at 61 with quality -1% or 99%
  2. Character level 89.

However, that is not what you are after. There is a base critical chance for all characters at 10%. In the information you provided, I was able to calculate 24% critical chance (your stats page shows 38%). That doesn’t mater either. Based on my experience, an assumed critical strike is 50% more than the hit if you do not have any critical damage affixes. Notice your weapon damage. If I took 1.5x1996 I will calculate the max damage you delivered during your video 2994. Based on the information you submitted for review, the critical damage can range between 1796-2994 using quick attack in arcane element. You need to keep the weapon damage ranges mind. This is my observation and assumption regarding your question. Given assumptions above, I am not sure if deadly strike would deliver 100% more damage for a range of 2394-3992.

2 Likes
8

Yeah but that has no influence here.

It’s because I have 2x 14% :wink:

It really is 50%, just made a longer test, a lot more values. Maximum damage comparison with screen damage is fine, but I like to do averages to prove it/double check; they are solid. Because if one has more affixes than me, one can easily miss a damage modifier like Skilled or so that does not appear in the screen damage.

Yeah that’s still to be tested :stuck_out_tongue: I’m not so sure either right now.

1 Like
9

Just did the test with 80 values:

  • Crit damage is additive with the 50% base crit damage. 2.21 is close enough to 2.25 in my eyes :yum: if it were multiplicative, one would expect a value of 2.625.

Just answered my own questions :grinning: but this information might be useful for 'em damage calculators out there hehe^^

You are correct, that old post

from March '15 still holds (just tested it). Hmm thought they changed something in the meantime but I guess not then.

@Mr_Scooty Deadly Strike works as expected with the 50% base crit damage. Doubles everything.

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10

So TL;DR crit damage adds +50% dmg above a non-crit strike by default. Any Crit Dmg +% one has equipped essentially adds to this base 50%. Good to keep in mind :+1:

11

Yeah sounds legit. :grinning: :smile: :slight_smile: I tested warrior level 1 with 25% crit chance but 0% crit dmg and it does seem that crit dmg is usually 1.5× stronger or 50% base although it seemed random to me but 1.5× or 50% occured more often than not. For some reason, 6× death nature gives you 25% crit chance huh.

I think that means adding 140% in PvP to this base 50% turns it into 190% dmg or 1.5+1.4=×1.9 which does explain why whenever I crit, I seem to deal double or so damage with that rate with what I have tested. Whether it’s worth it in PvP is really up to you but I thought it was worth it due to the fact that my orbs hit 10 times a second, constant crit chance and enough deadly strike even though sacrifice HP as double dmg is usually powerful.

If you have 350% crit dmg added to 50% base, it would turn 50% into 400% crit dmg because crit dmg affix is additive or in other words 1.5+3.5= 5× dmg.

I mean it kinda makes sense due to having crit damage as a must in PvE and that crit dmg far surpasses normal values by a longshot in any build in PvE like it’s a huge must, like turning 200M to 1 billion which seems big or small but it does seem to make sense with what I actually observed. In frozen build where damage multiplied by frozen and frostbiting, it makes it even more powerful due to how those builds work and the crit dmg.

Of course it goes without saying that deadly strike is very powerful, especially with brutal affix.

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12

How about Frozen, what makes it do so much damage when the enemy explodes? I don’t get enough info from reading the description on Frozen but the damage boost is massive, even exploding 2 frozen enemies is enough dmg usually to one hit a Mythic whereas my normal attacks would take a good 1 minute of straight attacking to kill it

13

Yeah I know.

As I said, what makes frozen really strong isn’t just the description of the set affix but the combined frostbiting. Think about it like this, if you have 300% frostbiting , your attack is effectively 4× stronger . Then when your attack explodes with frozen, the dmg is multiplied by 1.25 but the explosion is also multiplied by 300% frostbiting and then if the frozen happens twice, this 300% boost happens 3 times .

For example you deal 1 billion dmg . This is multiplied by 4 so 4 billion dmg. Then the explosion happens so 4 billion × 1.25= 5 billion dmg. Then the explosion is effected by frostbiting as soon as it places frozen on other enemies so 5 billion ×4 = 20 billion. This is if one explosion happens and 1 enemy but there are many variables because if multiples of enemies are frozen at the same time, technically many enemies effected by frostbiting can increase one explosion by a huge amount as well as the 1.25× dmg per enemies frozen.

One frozen explosion and multiple enemies frozen. About say 20. 1 billion increased by 300% frostbiting to 4 billion. Then the frozen explosion happens and if 20 enemies frozen , it means 1.25×20= ×25 dmg. 4 billion dmg ×25= 100B dmg. Then kicks in frostbiting or two. This could turn into 8 Trillion dmg or much much more. The crit dmg is constantly spiking up the frozen dmg to be honest as each frozen has a chance to trigger crit or no crit. If one frozen did crit, the other frozen may not do crit but it does innately more dmg than if 2 frozen exploded without any crit to happen. As well as that, these values get multiplied by frostbiting. Also if two frozen exploded with crit, both will be very high Dmg and very much spiked up by a huge amount.

If one frozen did deadly strike though, the next frozen will be 1.25× stronger or more than that previous deadly strike and it could continue a massive chain to easily get absurd numbers and as well as frostbiting. Also if enemies have stack debuff at first before the ice attack touches them, it make huge difference in dmg calculation of frozen which is essentially smart hirling play to deal extra dmg. Also Arcanist and Ascendant lifts it to absurd values too never seen before.

100B dmg ×4= 400B dmg or because of multiples of enemies effected, technically it would be ×4 about 20 times. Or 20 frostbiting kick in. Spike dmg due to frostbiting. Also crit chances/ deadly strikes can very much effect this value my a huge mile but this is assuming the 1B dmg is non crit as well as many explosions as an example. This is also why brutal mythic is extremely strong with frozen.
Also if deadly strikes or crits happen and even Arcanist+ Ascendant this can bump the values to a crazy insane dmg. Feels gud to deal quintillion dmg lol. Of course crushing blow does help sometimes.

Plagued used to proc toxic cloud multiple times when it wasn’t supposed to and it had inner crit dmg as well which made it all the more with absurd high Dmg. Think about this. If you dealt 1B dmg and you have 300% blight and effect 20 enemies, you essentially dealt 100B dmg. Crit dmg spikes many times if blight already spiked it up much and if toxic cloud proced twice, this could let you deal easy quintillion to numbers with 27 zeros back when green garden was broken. If you could spam coat at that time, toxic cloud could proc many many times and it also did that anyways along with the innate crit dmg constantly multiplying with deadly strike and crit dmg.

This is why it was so popular and also had numbers covering up the screen by 60% or 40%. It used to be far stronger than frozen but now they’re about almost equal power and extremely powerful if combined correctly.

1 Like
14

Yeah that makes sense. What I’ve come to realize - and please correct me or add - is that once you get to floor 1,000+ you basically have two choices for build themes, poison cloud or Frozen-based builds, for their multiplicatively-high damage and because they evaporate large swarms of enemies in a hurry. Would you agree or are there others?

15

Yeah I basically agree although frozen seems to be far better due to the nerfs to poison clouds but poison still works. Arcanist+ Ascendant makes it seriously powerful after all. Even without, they are still innately powerful.

16

You have 10% base crit chance :wink:

Plagued - Frozen - Arcanist/Ascendent are your options :wink: you may combine the latter with the two former as well.

17

I checked stat page when testing and it said 0% crit chance but I think it was meant to say 10% base as it’s always been 10% base crit chance. It explains why 45% crit chance turns into 55% often. In PvP, the base crit chance is probably not there or maybe it is but I don’t see it.

18

It is there :slight_smile:

19

Well I tried 11% crit chance and it seemed to very rarely work in PvP but if I added 20% crit chance, it often crit even if it goes way over 24% for some reason but that’s if the 10% base crit chance is there.

20

Been playing this game for a year plus now and still feel like I’m learning the basics lol